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Post by seikoholic on Jan 22, 2015 16:45:41 GMT -8
So, I had a customer send in his blue spark, and after looking at the movement and the options, he elected to have the movement swapped out for a new one. He also said he didn't want the old movement back, so we came to agreement about it. It's here now. It's going to need love, it doesn't run at all, but it's a genuine 6R15 movement. So.. now what?
What should I do with a 6R15 movement, assuming I could ever get time to service it?
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jan 22, 2015 17:17:48 GMT -8
You know the answer, 6R15 powered SKX.
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Post by seikoholic on Jan 22, 2015 18:09:31 GMT -8
You know the answer, 6R15 powered SKX. Except that I still don't have an easy, comprehensive answer for the stem mis-match. I have an NH36 as well that I picked up, and that's a drop-in mod with hacking and hand-winding, AND it's sold as the standard sub for 7S26/36 now, and yet the stems don't swap.
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Post by Benchdweller on Jan 23, 2015 5:12:10 GMT -8
You have two options for the stem, either use a SARB059 one piece crown and stem, or buy one of the a/m SKX crowns with the screw in stem- www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201254868659. I have a 4R36 here waiting to go into a SKX and the a/m crown is in the post. I'll post more details and confirm if it works when it arrives.
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Post by seikoholic on Jan 23, 2015 16:50:27 GMT -8
You have two options for the stem, either use a SARB059 one piece crown and stem, or buy one of the a/m SKX crowns with the screw in stem- www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201254868659. I have a 4R36 here waiting to go into a SKX and the a/m crown is in the post. I'll post more details and confirm if it works when it arrives. FANTASTIC. Thank you, very very much.
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jan 23, 2015 21:17:58 GMT -8
Just moved this to mods an STICKYED it. So we can try and master this cool mod.
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Post by Benchdweller on Feb 2, 2015 18:51:43 GMT -8
The a/m SKX crown with removable stem finally arrived today allowing me to start building a 4R36 powered SKX. The movement was sourced from Cousins and came minus the day wheel but my plan is to use the white on black wheels from the 7S26 that's being replaced. The recipient for the new movement is my SKX171 PMMM mod - The 4R36 came with the correct 3.2mm movement spacer for the SKX case - Because the movement came minus the day wheel, I also had to harvest the intermediate wheel and c-clip that holds the day wheel from the 7S26 - Dial and hands fitted and a look down the stem tube to check that the stem hole is aligned - The crown screwed in with no issues - And then on to the timegrapher to see what a new and unadjusted 4R36 looks like - And finally, just to make the mod a bit more visible, a clear case back - Everything went together without issue and it was as easy a job as I'd hoped. I've heard that the 4R36/6R15 is a slightly thicker movement than the 7S26 and there was a risk of the rotor touching the case back but I tried it with both the original and clear case backs fitted and the rotor spins freely with both. The other potential issue was that the hands would sit higher and maybe foul the crystal, but again no issues here. It should be noted that I'm using a domed sapphire and haven't tried a standard crystal but when fitting the hands they certainly didn't sit noticeably higher from the dial than any other watch. I think its safe to say that the 4R36 and 6R15 are a direct swap for a 7S26 as long as the right crown and stem are used .
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Feb 5, 2015 2:22:40 GMT -8
Really appreciate the time you've taken to post this up! I think this is a really valuable post and should open the doors to some really cool mods.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 9:37:09 GMT -8
Really appreciate the time you've taken to post this up! I think this is a really valuable post and should open the doors to some really cool mods. Just one cautionary note needs to be added to this mod. The 7s26A and B are likely perfect swapping parts for the 4r35A and B but care should be taken to note part number differences between them and any of the 'C' variants. Many parts from the A and B models will not interchange with the C models. So, 'A and B' to 'A and B' is good; C to C is good. But check the parts before trying swaps with A and B to C.
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Post by Benchdweller on Feb 5, 2015 10:34:29 GMT -8
The 7s26 I replaced was a C movement and the dial side appears identical to the 4R36A. If you were swapping parts between a 7S26A or B and a 4R36A then you might run into problems.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 11:17:00 GMT -8
The 7s26 I replaced was a C movement and the dial side appears identical to the 4R36A. If you were swapping parts between a 7S26A or B and a 4R36A then you might run into problems. I don't understand how the dial side can be identical on those two calibres. The 7s26 doesn't hand wind nor does it hack so there will definitely be differences in some of the dial side mechanisms. If you remember back to the 6r15A(7s26B with hand winding and hacking) there was problems with the winding mechanism and the date wheel. Seiko fixed this by putting in a new date wheel and some fine adjustments to the winding mechanism. 7s26A or B date wheels are not a good swap for this nor will they be for the 4r36 since it is based very closely on the 6r15. I'm only cautioning folks to check part numbers before attempting any swaps.
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Post by Benchdweller on Feb 5, 2015 18:08:13 GMT -8
The 7s26 I replaced was a C movement and the dial side appears identical to the 4R36A. If you were swapping parts between a 7S26A or B and a 4R36A then you might run into problems. I don't understand how the dial side can be identical on those two calibres. The 7s26 doesn't hand wind nor does it hack so there will definitely be differences in some of the dial side mechanisms. The 4R36A is the 7S26C replacement and shares many parts including the ones I swapped, so you can understand why I said it looks identical. The 7S26A/B on the other hand... If you remember back to the 6r15A(7s26B with hand winding and hacking) there was problems with the winding mechanism and the date wheel. Seiko fixed this by putting in a new date wheel and some fine adjustments to the winding mechanism. 7s26A or B date wheels are not a good swap for this nor will they be for the 4r36 since it is based very closely on the 6r15. I'm only cautioning folks to check part numbers before attempting any swaps. They made several changes to the dial side from to the 7S26B to the C including the plate that incorporates the day jumper spring. I can't recall the exact changes they made, hence my post warning about using 7S26A or B parts in this conversion .
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 18:16:53 GMT -8
I don't understand how the dial side can be identical on those two calibres. The 7s26 doesn't hand wind nor does it hack so there will definitely be differences in some of the dial side mechanisms. The 4R36A is the 7S26C replacement and shares many parts including the ones I swapped, so you can understand why I said it looks identical. The 7S26A/B on the other hand... If you remember back to the 6r15A(7s26B with hand winding and hacking) there was problems with the winding mechanism and the date wheel. Seiko fixed this by putting in a new date wheel and some fine adjustments to the winding mechanism. 7s26A or B date wheels are not a good swap for this nor will they be for the 4r36 since it is based very closely on the 6r15. I'm only cautioning folks to check part numbers before attempting any swaps. They made several changes to the dial side from to the 7S26B to the C including the plate that incorporates the day jumper spring. I can't recall the exact changes they made, hence my post warning about using 7S26A or B parts in this conversion . I guess we're saying the same thing...check part numbers before ordering
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Post by seikoholic on Feb 6, 2015 12:47:27 GMT -8
I have ordered the crowns and can't wait to give this a try. Fantastic.
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Feb 7, 2015 5:07:52 GMT -8
Thanks for the input Pete & Dynamo. Very valid points and notes.
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Post by bklake on Feb 25, 2015 6:24:29 GMT -8
I'm watching this with great interest because I have most of the parts to surpercharge my SKX( x2 ). I have an NH36 movement and an NE15 movement. A 15 year old SKX175. The movement in that let me down the first week i had it with the old hair spring jumping thing. And, a new SKX009.
Stumbling blocks are:
Day Dial for the 4R36. What is the part number for this wheel for the 4 o'clock stem? 7S26C compatible.
Crown and Stem. After market or SARB059 part # 1E70D1SNS0. Is after market any good, don't know? I go in the water a lot so water tight is a requirement. A stem came with the movement so I can make up the part with an after market crown.
Dial Spacer. Have the part number somewhere.
Mostly, the stumbling block is where to get the parts? I'm just a lowly hobbyist and the watch parts dealers don't want my kind around. I did manage to sneak into Star Time, that's how I got the movements.
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Mar 4, 2015 1:21:13 GMT -8
We need to tempt Seikoholic to post here again and tell us of his progress.
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Post by seikoholic on Mar 26, 2015 10:43:51 GMT -8
I got in three of the new SKX crowns from the Philippines, the ones where you can replace the stem. A great idea, and I was able to swap out the stems in order to drop in an NH36. A great idea, but the execution was not good. The crown's internal spring does not move in and out smoothly. It catches up, hangs up, gets stuck. When the crown is screwed down, the spring is compressed, but it does not release. So, if you try to unscrew the crown to hand-wind the movement, the stem is stuck in and the watch immediately starts adjusting the day/date or it goes to time-setting. The force needed to pull that stuck spring back out is enough that the whole stem has started coming out of the movement.
All three crowns that I got do this, all are made with the same defect. So, it's not only not an improvement, it's not even able to be used at the same level as before. It's in worse shape, is less usable. It is essentially not hand-windable anymore. Once it's set to time, unless I want to have the stem pull all the way out, or have the day/date changed or the time stopped via hacking, I have to just keep it wound and wear it.
So, a minor problem with design / execution, and a beautiful idea dies on the vine.
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Post by bklake on Mar 26, 2015 15:07:51 GMT -8
Did you buy from the merchant in the link? I have a crown and stem coming from a different seller. It is on the slow boat from the PI. I will report if it operates better or worse.
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Post by Benchdweller on Mar 26, 2015 18:41:44 GMT -8
I can't say I've had this issue to the same extent with mine. Occasionally when the crown is unscrewed it doesn't pop out from the threads but as soon as you turn it you then feel it pop out slightly further into the hand winding position. I assumed it was my mistake by possibly cutting the stem too short but its still a non-issue for me. I could spend £3 on a new stem and cut it slightly longer to see if it cures it but it doesn't bother me enough yet to try.
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