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WS Benefactor
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Post by small on Dec 19, 2016 15:04:53 GMT -8
So what would you guys do?
I posted before I have a watch that has an unbranded AS1686 movement that needs a mainspring. Searching for movements on eBay I have found many different watches using the same movement some were branded some not some even adjusted to several positions. I've catalog nearly 70!
Since I get an email when something new comes up for auction, there's now one that has the makers name on the bridge! Since I'm going to be swapping the mainspring out should I go ahead and buy a movement "not running" that has the brand name on it?
Does this increase or decrease its value of the watch? I often see vintage movements listed as signed in x-places, Dial, movement, case, crown etc... I have no idea if this watch had a marked bridge already when it left the factory but assumed it didn't until I came across one that was...You guys seem to be real sticklers for originality so I've ready to hear your opinions...
Heck as popular as these movements are/were a jeweler could have swapped either the bridge or whole movement at one point...
So do I pony up a couple of extra bucks and toss a marked bridge on the bad boy or let it walk with what I got it with...
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Adrian-VTA
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Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Dec 19, 2016 15:21:51 GMT -8
Most of the ST movement watches aren't worth a lot unfortunately. If it's good for bits I doubt you will impact the value a lot by making a mutt. So what would you guys do? I posted before I have a watch that has an unbranded AS1686 movement that needs a mainspring. Searching for movements on eBay I have found many different watches using the same movement some were branded some not some even adjusted to several positions. I've catalog nearly 70! Since I get an email when something new comes up for auction, there's now one that has the makers name on the bridge! Since I'm going to be swapping the mainspring out should I go ahead and buy a movement "not running" that has the brand name on it? Does this increase or decrease its value of the watch? I often see vintage movements listed as signed in x-places, Dial, movement, case, crown etc... I have no idea if this watch had a marked bridge already when it left the factory but assumed it didn't until I came across one that was...You guys seem to be real sticklers for originality so I've ready to hear your opinions... Heck as popular as these movements are/were a jeweler could have swapped either the bridge or whole movement at one point... So do I pony up a couple of extra bucks and toss a marked bridge on the bad boy or let it walk with what I got it with... |
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WS Benefactor
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Post by small on Dec 19, 2016 17:54:25 GMT -8
Most of the ST movement watches aren't worth a lot unfortunately. If it's good for bits I doubt you will impact the value a lot by making a mutt. So what would you guys do? I posted before I have a watch that has an unbranded AS1686 movement that needs a mainspring. Searching for movements on eBay I have found many different watches using the same movement some were branded some not some even adjusted to several positions. I've catalog nearly 70! Since I get an email when something new comes up for auction, there's now one that has the makers name on the bridge! Since I'm going to be swapping the mainspring out should I go ahead and buy a movement "not running" that has the brand name on it? Does this increase or decrease its value of the watch? I often see vintage movements listed as signed in x-places, Dial, movement, case, crown etc... I have no idea if this watch had a marked bridge already when it left the factory but assumed it didn't until I came across one that was...You guys seem to be real sticklers for originality so I've ready to hear your opinions... Heck as popular as these movements are/were a jeweler could have swapped either the bridge or whole movement at one point... So do I pony up a couple of extra bucks and toss a marked bridge on the bad boy or let it walk with what I got it with... Your right VTA, new 1686's can still be had it seems, for a nice dinner for two, no drinks. I just wondered if a movement labeled the same as the dial would add anything. Most of the watches I've found with this movement are no longer in business, the boom of the Swiss industry before they were gutted by the Quartz movement(s), had most of these going the way of the dodo. May of the movements I've seen in their watches are marked with their name, and with different script... Yet many of these movements use the same style engraving for the makers name, so I'm unsure if its even real. Could it have been done in the era when the Swiss were trying to cut cost? Doing away with fancy deep engraving and polishing on a movement no one will see?? The seller wants more then I'd generally spend but it comes with a clean dial and hands, not that I'd use either... I've got time before I have to decide just figured I'd pick the collective brain on here. As always , Thanks in advance. |
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Post by philsinclair on Dec 19, 2016 21:48:21 GMT -8
Hi. You probably haven't scratched the tip of the iceberg yet. The real number would exceed 300 brands. Although these are a nice little watch they would best be described as entry level . Cheers Phil
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Dec 20, 2016 0:04:53 GMT -8
That would be a conservative estimate in my view. I'd maybe say at least double that. At the time (mid 60's to mid 70's), there were a dizzying array of options available from the ESA group. In my tech books, there are maybe 600+ variations in total across a bunch of base movements that were available, and that's not including any custom stuff like "élaborés" movements and any other tweaks. At the time ESA would make you anything you wanted as long as you paid the bill. Now a lot of people say that quartz caused the Swiss crisis. I disagree to a large part and would say that it was already in decline, and the idiots in Switzerland have continued the same crap business practices until recently. So what eventually happened is that these brands stopped developing their own movements and just purchased "ebauches" from ESA. So you could go to a shop, they might have 10 brands with 10 price points, all with the same or similar movement. Imagine going car shopping, and you discover that the Lincoln, Ford and Mercury were all the same car but with different body panels (Oh wait that actually happened!). My point is it was to a point where there were no significant differences between a large swath of these low tier brands on the market and when that happens, the only way prices can go is down, as they are all the same anyway. So that was the "in" for Japanese brands and whatever else to start fitting out these brands with lower cost movements. Good example in point is Benrus. They made beautiful movements for ages, in the 70's because they didn't really innovate enough they started swapping out their beautiful movements with 6106's or anything they could get from Japan to stay competitive. That sunk the brand as there was no longer anything unique about the brand. The quartz crisis should be renamed the "Lack of innovation from the lazy and crap Swiss brands" crisis in my opinion. It only accelerated something that was already on the way down. Hi. You probably haven't scratched the tip of the iceberg yet. The real number would exceed 300 brands. Although these are a nice little watch they would best be described as entry level . Cheers Phil |
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Post by small on Dec 20, 2016 5:40:40 GMT -8
Well I guess that blows a hole in my quest to "collect them all". I thought what a unique collection 1686's would make... I have found them like I said in nearly 70 so far and that is just with ad's that show the movement. They are in everything from chrome cases to 9k solid gold, from Unadjusted to adjusted in 3 positions...Many unmarked movements to those with deep engraving and color filled fonts. Mostly smaller round cases but a few in larger ones with pretty big movement rings...About the only thing in my searching that compares is the AS/ST1187...I bet I see these 2:1 against the 1686 although I'm not keeping track to see if they are in different watches or the same brands...
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WS Benefactor
Posts: 2,454
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Post by small on Aug 2, 2022 12:47:27 GMT -8
Wow I see I started this so long ago. I thought maybe I should update. Not that anyone cares. Rereading it does seem that Phil and VTA were pretty spot on.
Not sure why I keep it up, but I have now collected images of nearly 100 unique dial and movements using the 1686. I did start a running list in excel before I had the idea to save a pic too. That list has now grown to 147. Although there are some dups from say Elgin that have both 7 and 17 jewel platforms that are still AS1686's...recently there has been a surge of offering with the Titus name brand from India as well as odd balls from Serbia being listed on eBay...
As they were one of the first movements I tried to tackle, it hold a spot near to me...
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