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Post by DAHASCO on Aug 25, 2013 13:42:09 GMT -8
Who is all about 100% original Seiko Etc... ETC...Then he massacres Seiko Watch Cases (never to be returned to original ) Throws some kind of shroud/Ring around it and now these leftovers are called Tunas WTF Oh sure it's OK to bash sellers that sell AM parts...But these Shadetree Rings are alright...What do you think ?
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Post by cannop on Aug 25, 2013 13:59:19 GMT -8
I always thought John was OK about AM parts? Prefers original (don't we all) but will use AM if needs must. I quite like what he's doing with the scrap cases he finds, but I thought he'd called his product the TSTxxx not Tuna? Not that it matters either way to me, tuna is just a nickname for a shrouded divers watch anyway, Seiko tuna, Scubapro tuna, Ricoh tuna etc.
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cd_god
Is a Permanent Fixture
Finna set up a HOOD next door to your richie phuk suburban mansion
Posts: 12,246
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Post by cd_god on Aug 25, 2013 14:09:11 GMT -8
2 years will pass.
The fad will be over as they all have.
The original owners will be looking to the Philippines for donor cases to return their watches to original.
I have no problem with them other than the drilled lug holes seem a little too close to the lug tip to offer proper support as even the original Seiko 6309s can have rounded out lug pin holes.
Take the money and run.
If I worked somewhere that had a CNC mill instead of a pile of junk lawnmower I would have run the same hustle.
If you were selling "Time for a Change" Barry O Hussein t-shirts on the streets in 2008 and bought a nice Chicago Lake Michigan view Condo with your $50 investment congrats.
Keep Hustlin' while the money is good or you end up in jail.
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Post by dad-the-diver on Aug 25, 2013 14:28:49 GMT -8
I have one sitting here, machined, shroud fitted & waiting to go. Got a donor 6309 from Spencer (thanks Buddy) and when I can get my daughter to STOP WEARING IT will get it swapped over. Got Zero problems with it TBH. I wanted a Full-On, Ruff-n-Tuff Seiko or Citizen diver for some, Er....fairly extreme dives I have planed for the winter & this was the best, most economic way of going about it. That it recycles an old beat-up case is just a bonus to me. Will be fitted (OK, Pete, cobbled together) with all original Seiko bits so will not be AM at all. Not that it matters to me, my main 6309 I dive with has AM action going on but there you go. Jimmy on here has one (think its his avatar) I'm sure he'll be along with an opinion soon (ish) EDIT:- Yep, it's his avatar
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Post by saul on Aug 25, 2013 14:46:15 GMT -8
Just to clarify, what is it that John is doing that has your dander up? - The re-machining of 6309 (and now 7002) cases?
- What you feel is hypocrisy over previously stated positions on after market mash-ups that appropriate IP from Seiko (point of reference I have no idea as to what he has or hasn't said in the past)?
- The notion that he is creating fake Tunas that will dilute the marketplace and misrepresent themselves?
- The creation of a 1:1 replacement shroud for existing 7549-7010 cases that some may want as a freshening part to existing watches?
I'm not trying to provoke, I am sincerely curious. I will issue as disclaimer that I have one of his TST mods and another in process. Purely for my own enjoyment, never to be resold. Who is all about 100% original Seiko Etc... ETC...Then he massacres Seiko Watch Cases (never to be returned to original ) Throws some kind of shroud/Ring around it and now these leftovers are called Tunas WTF Oh sure it's OK to bash sellers that sell AM parts...But these Shadetree Rings are alright...What do you think ?
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Post by DAHASCO on Aug 25, 2013 14:55:31 GMT -8
Wow...You guys haven't changed..I never mentioned names...
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Post by Groundhog66 on Aug 25, 2013 15:24:30 GMT -8
Wow...You guys haven't changed..I never mentioned names... Do you really think you needed to mention a name, in order to start the drama? Keep this civil please...
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Post by kingrat on Aug 25, 2013 15:29:14 GMT -8
Makes my blood boil so it does. Names. I want names dammit.
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Post by peacemaker885 on Aug 25, 2013 17:29:15 GMT -8
I think its cool to have one...if they weren't so dang expensive :-P
If I had more that a one of the same model and had the extra cash, I would do it. But you are right - the end product is no different from Loy's ( in terms of coming up with different watch from the original using AM parts )if you ask me. I haven't read any of his posts that criticizes ones that use AM parts. If this is true then its nothing more than hypocrisy on his part..and we've been all guilty of that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 17:40:10 GMT -8
Makes my blood boil so it does. Names. I want names dammit. Not Loy; not Loy; not Loy but rhymes with 'spares'
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Post by saul on Aug 25, 2013 18:29:39 GMT -8
In the instance of the TST modification the only AM part being used is the shroud. It is a high quality 1:1 repro, it is unbranded and certainly not available from Seiko as a replacement part. If used on a 7549-7010 and then resold one would hope there would be full disclosure from the seller. John is modifying cases on a custom order basis. Any additional changes to the subject watches would be up to the owner of the watch. I think we need to distinguish (for the umpteenth time) between modification with AM parts to create something different versus modification with AM parts using a false Seiko branding. I have engaged in the former many times, I hold the latter in extreme disdain. The distinction with Loy's output is that he is creating new dial designs and illegally and inappropriately using Seiko logos as well as the proliferation of redialing on top of actual Seiko dials. That practice used to be a standard for damaged dials and was executed with a high degree of craftsmanship. It was common for Swiss watches and it is a dying art. I do not know historically how much fraud was executed with redials. One assumes there must have been some. One thing that does tweek me a bit is the use of a genuine dial from a higher end watch to mod a lower end watch. To wit, the proliferation of Marine Master dials in 7S26-002x cases and even in Sumo's. While I believe that the ones I have seen paraded on the forums are being done by watch lovers who cannot and probably will not afford an MM and have no malice aforethought, I still worry that eventually there will be a bad sale misrepresented to someone, somewhere. I am guilty of appropriating MM hands into a cheaper watch (cuz they are a kick ass design) but nobody will ever mistake the watch for something else. I think its cool to have one...if they weren't so dang expensive :-P If I had more that a one of the same model and had the extra cash, I would do it. But you are right - the end product is no different from Loy's ( in terms of coming up with different watch from the original using AM parts )if you ask me. I haven't read any of his posts that criticizes ones that use AM parts. If this is true then its nothing more than hypocrisy on his part..and we've been all guilty of that.
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Post by SpinDoctor on Aug 25, 2013 18:53:49 GMT -8
One thing that does tweek me a bit is the use of a genuine dial from a higher end watch to mod a lower end watch. To wit, the proliferation of Marine Master dials in 7S26-002x cases and even in Sumo's. While I believe that the ones I have seen paraded on the forums are being done by watch lovers who cannot and probably will not afford an MM and have no malice aforethought, I still worry that eventually there will be a bad sale misrepresented to someone, somewhere. I am guilty of appropriating MM hands into a cheaper watch (cuz they are a kick ass design) but nobody will ever mistake the watch for something else. I'm glad I'm not the only one irritated by this, but I suppose it is for a different reason. For something like the MM300 I want to see seiko control its parts to the same level as its luxury models. I can tell you I'd be pissed if I just shelled out my hard earned money on a new MM300 only to tune into your favorite forum to see guys dropping the same genuine dial and hand set into a $200 case. I know everyone loves to mod their seikos, but this is over the line. If Seiko fans want their brand to be taken seriously by other watch enthusiasts, then they should't see parts from a $2,000 model so easily accessible to any lunkhead who happens to know the right guy who can manage to get authentic parts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 19:04:31 GMT -8
One thing that does tweek me a bit is the use of a genuine dial from a higher end watch to mod a lower end watch. To wit, the proliferation of Marine Master dials in 7S26-002x cases and even in Sumo's. While I believe that the ones I have seen paraded on the forums are being done by watch lovers who cannot and probably will not afford an MM and have no malice aforethought, I still worry that eventually there will be a bad sale misrepresented to someone, somewhere. I am guilty of appropriating MM hands into a cheaper watch (cuz they are a kick ass design) but nobody will ever mistake the watch for something else. I'm glad I'm not the only one irritated by this, but I suppose it is for a different reason. For something like the MM300 I want to see seiko control its parts to the same level as its luxury models. I can tell you I'd be pissed if I just shelled out my hard earned money on a new MM300 only to tune into your favorite forum to see guys dropping the same genuine dial and hand set into a $200 case. I know everyone loves to mod their seikos, but this is over the line. If Seiko fans want their brand to be taken seriously by other watch enthusiasts, then they should't see parts from a $2,000 model so easily accessible to any lunkhead who happens to know the right guy who can manage to get authentic parts. Are you saying that in some cases, modding is even less acceptable than using AM parts? laugh1.gif
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Post by russtmurray on Aug 25, 2013 20:16:44 GMT -8
Kinda like cutting up a National Geographic if you ask me....other than that, I could not care less.
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Post by lucilinburhuc on Aug 25, 2013 21:18:49 GMT -8
I am a big fan of the guy, hence my avatar.
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Post by kingrat on Aug 26, 2013 0:48:10 GMT -8
'Lunkhead'! Bit harsh.
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Rod
WS Benefactor
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Rod on Aug 26, 2013 0:58:18 GMT -8
As i have done manny times over the last month on a variety of topics......I was not going to comment on this. But, if you want a cheep reliable dive watch buy a SKX, i just picked up a new 009 for $105.
If you are totally reliant on a mechanical time piece for diving then you live closer to the edge than I.. smiley-sport038
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Post by DAHASCO on Aug 26, 2013 3:15:42 GMT -8
My point is if you want a Tuna...Buy a Tuna...We'll see these watches resold on the Mud Puddle as Tunas for big $ Just Watch...
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martog
WIS
“I want to know how watches can hold all the time in the world using only two hands.” ― Jarod Kintz
Posts: 1,221
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Post by martog on Aug 26, 2013 3:38:20 GMT -8
I honestly don't give a rats bung hole each to his own not my cuppa tea but I guess some people think its the cats whiskers.
cheers Mark
C
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Post by SpinDoctor on Aug 26, 2013 4:11:45 GMT -8
I'm glad I'm not the only one irritated by this, but I suppose it is for a different reason. For something like the MM300 I want to see seiko control its parts to the same level as its luxury models. I can tell you I'd be pissed if I just shelled out my hard earned money on a new MM300 only to tune into your favorite forum to see guys dropping the same genuine dial and hand set into a $200 case. I know everyone loves to mod their seikos, but this is over the line. If Seiko fans want their brand to be taken seriously by other watch enthusiasts, then they should't see parts from a $2,000 model so easily accessible to any lunkhead who happens to know the right guy who can manage to get authentic parts. Are you saying that in some cases, modding is even less acceptable than using AM parts? laugh1.gif yes I suppose so, but uniquely in this case because of the prestige and pedigree of the donor dial and hand set. Like I said before, we can't expect people to take seiko seriously if we don't take it seriously ourselves.
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