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Post by meanoldmanning on Nov 7, 2017 15:32:10 GMT -8
I’m totally alright with Shinola as a brand, and even ok with them pricing their wears above where I think they really belong, but $2250.00 US for their new limited edition automatic diver? I’m assuming there getting the movements from Ronda as kits and assembling in Detroit, but still.
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pip
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Berkshire, UK
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Post by pip on Nov 7, 2017 15:46:32 GMT -8
I hear you brother! But there are a lot of people out there that see an LE sign and think they are onto the next big thing. And who knows, maybe they are.
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Myles
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Post by Myles on Nov 7, 2017 15:49:31 GMT -8
I think Shinola is basically a private-sector jobs program. Good on 'em, if that's what they want to be.
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Post by meanoldmanning on Nov 7, 2017 15:50:59 GMT -8
Hey, if they can sell their stuff I’m all for it. I’m just shocked they pushed it up market so much.
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Myles
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Post by Myles on Nov 7, 2017 16:06:47 GMT -8
Any idea what ébauche the ARGOMATIC R-150 is based on? It doesn't look like a 2824-2.
It's not a bad looking watch. It reminds me of the Tag Heuer Aquaracer.
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Post by meanoldmanning on Nov 7, 2017 16:09:56 GMT -8
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tritto
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Post by tritto on Nov 7, 2017 16:52:45 GMT -8
Apparently the Ronda is meant to be a competitor to the 2824, which makes the pricing rather high. Tissot puts the 2836 (day-date) in $500 watches (less on the grey market). According to worn and wound the price for the R150 is about 66CHFF, which makes it $68US.
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Myles
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Post by Myles on Nov 7, 2017 16:56:10 GMT -8
US$68? That's cheap. Is it a drop-in replacement for a 2824-2?
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Post by meanoldmanning on Nov 7, 2017 17:22:13 GMT -8
I wouldn’t hold the list mov’t price up as a criticism of the watch price as I believe Shinola actually receives ‘raw movement’ kits which are hand assembled in the US. I am pretty certain that’s what they do with the Ronda quartz mov’ts they use. Higher labor cost, higher price. But, the overall retail price still seems way up there.
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tritto
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Post by tritto on Nov 7, 2017 17:49:17 GMT -8
How long does it take to assemble, oil and regulate a clean brand new movement. If my guy here charges around $80US to strip down, clean, oil, assemble and regulate a 3 handed auto then surely it’s costing Shinola less to do - given wages in Aus are higher than in the US. Say they buy movement kits for $50 (discounted compared to list price of assembled movements) and pays another $50 to assemble them, then it’s still only a $100 movement is a $2250 watch.
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Myles
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Post by Myles on Nov 7, 2017 17:52:30 GMT -8
I wouldn’t hold the list mov’t price up as a criticism of the watch price as I believe Shinola actually receives ‘raw movement’ kits which are hand assembled in the US. I am pretty certain that’s what they do with the Ronda quartz mov’ts they use. Higher labor cost, higher price. But, the overall retail price still seems way up there. Hence my "jobs program" comment.
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Post by meanoldmanning on Nov 7, 2017 18:02:28 GMT -8
How long does it take to assemble, oil and regulate a clean brand new movement. If my guy here charges around $80US to strip down, clean, oil, assemble and regulate a 3 handed auto then surely it’s costing Shinola less to do - given wages in Aus are higher than in the US. Say they buy movement kits for $50 (discounted compared to list price of assembled movements) and pays another $50 to assemble them, then it’s still only a $100 movement is a $2250 watch. Sure, absolutely. I do think the overall watch is priced high. I’m just saying you can’t take a supply house price and assign it to a built watch. Many, many high end brands use a variant of some ETA movement, but they aren’t taking an unadjusted mov’t and slapping it in a case in every instance. VW phaeton versus Bentley Continental GT if you will. That, plus what the market will bear price wise.
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tritto
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Post by tritto on Nov 7, 2017 19:29:16 GMT -8
Yeah, I know there are plenty of upmarket watches with ETA movements inside. However, what we have here is a super cheap movement in an up market watch. Price-wise, it’s equivalent to an NH35. Imagine Seiko dropping an NH35 inside one of the new SBDC051/3s and trying to charge $2.2k for it.
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Post by meanoldmanning on Nov 7, 2017 19:44:00 GMT -8
Yeah, we’ll see what the market will bear. I have are hard time seeing the limited run selling out at full pop, but who knows, as mentioned above there are folks who are into LE runs. Resale later on might be depressed though. Shinola watches don’t appear to hold their value well based on what I’ve seen over some time on eBay.
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Adrian-VTA
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Adelaide, South Australia
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Nov 8, 2017 1:54:50 GMT -8
It's a simplified 2892 from what I can see.
That's a crazy price for a Shinola.
I like their design side of the business but the rest is totally reprehensible and misleading.
It wouldn't make any sense to assemble the entire movement onsite. What is believable is that the rotors are screwed on...
To train the "ex auto workers" as watchmakers would take several years. I don't see that happening.
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Post by jwblack on Nov 8, 2017 4:11:25 GMT -8
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Post by meanoldmanning on Nov 8, 2017 4:38:52 GMT -8
It wouldn't make any sense to assemble the entire movement onsite. What is believable is that the rotors are screwed on... To train the "ex auto workers" as watchmakers would take several years. I don't see that happening. I’m not 100% certain, but pretty sure they assemble the components of the quartz mov’ts from plate up. It’s kind of their schtick and they feature it in some of their marketing. The same with their basically rebranded VPI turntables. I imaging it’s likely they will strap on at least a few more bits than the rotor and then regulate and adjust at more that DU and DD. But that’s optimistic perhaps, and it’s still wildly overpriced
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Adrian-VTA
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Adelaide, South Australia
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Nov 8, 2017 4:40:08 GMT -8
There's not really any points of difference over a $500 microbrand and has a totally unknown movement. Horrible value for money and nil resale value.
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Adrian-VTA
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Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Nov 8, 2017 4:43:17 GMT -8
In the posted article they said the movement would be assembled by Ronda. So you are getting a run of the mill diver case with one of the cheapest Swiss mechanical movements available. I'd like to see some firm proof they assemble the quartz movements there. It makes no real sense from a practicality point of view as they would be supplied in trays by Ronda. I follow these things reasonably closely as I'd like to do a microbrand some day. But I have some ideas that would give a true point of difference. It wouldn't make any sense to assemble the entire movement onsite. What is believable is that the rotors are screwed on... To train the "ex auto workers" as watchmakers would take several years. I don't see that happening. I’m not 100% certain, but pretty sure they assemble the components of the quartz mov’ts from plate up. It’s kind of their schtick and they feature it in some of their marketing. The same with their basically rebranded VPI turntables. I imaging it’s likely they will strap on at least a few more bits than the rotor and then regulate and adjust at more that DU and DD. But that’s optimistic perhaps, and it’s still wildly overpriced
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pip
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Post by pip on Nov 8, 2017 5:55:02 GMT -8
I follow these things reasonably closely as I'd like to do a microbrand some day. But I have some ideas that would give a true point of difference. I’m in, I’ll take serial number 007 from your LE please!
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