HiBeat
Global Moderator
SEIKO Iko Iko GDTRWS
Posts: 8,663 
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Post by HiBeat on Nov 19, 2019 18:54:27 GMT -8
I emailed but got no response. Myself too. |
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Post by bbilford83 on Nov 19, 2019 23:35:22 GMT -8
I emailed but got no response. Myself too. FYI I've now emailed back and forth with him three times and all three times his reply went to my gmail spam filter - something to check. |
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Post by bombora on Nov 20, 2019 2:14:48 GMT -8
I got an email from Ryu today checking on mailing and payment details. He said he had no idea how busy he would be with all the different international shipping. I cheered him up by telling him how popular the book is going to be.  |
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Post by hieraklion on Nov 20, 2019 12:03:51 GMT -8
FYI I've now emailed back and forth with him three times and all three times his reply went to my gmail spam filter - something to check. Same with yahoo mail. First answer in spams. |
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Post by bombora on Nov 26, 2019 4:04:34 GMT -8
Paid for and Ryu-san will start delivering on Dec 10.
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Post by groundhogman on Jan 29, 2020 12:34:11 GMT -8
Has anyone else not received there book yet ?
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Post by SeikoPsycho on Jan 29, 2020 15:17:55 GMT -8
Has anyone else not received there book yet ? Still waiting on mine. Nothing new on tracking since Dec. |
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Post by SeikoPsycho on Jan 29, 2020 17:19:35 GMT -8
Just checked with Ryugo. "Slow boat from Japan takes 1 to 3 months"........... |
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HiBeat
Global Moderator
SEIKO Iko Iko GDTRWS
Posts: 8,663
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Post by HiBeat on Jan 29, 2020 20:20:03 GMT -8
I just got a copy on loan and must say I am rather ambivalent. Of course it was a good read and any of us who pick it up will be happy we did so, but it's not without some fair criticism.
Plus side - compelling story telling of the development of all sorts of 1960s chronos, and the "proof" of Seiko 6139 being the world's first automatic chronograph. So happy Ryugo-san interviewed the designers while they are still alive and well and able to recount these significant chapters in Seiko history and horology overall. That is by far the book's major accomplishment. Congratulations for documenting all of this fascinating material.
It sure had some great photos. Covers the earliest chrome-rimmed crystals on the 6139-6000 and the 6139-603X in French and Italian dress. Great info on Seiko moving first itself, and then bringing the industry, out of using Ligne measurements into mm to improve precision. Great info on dial texture finishing technique options Seiko used in it's design heyday. Loads more good stuff. Like I said, lots to enjoy.
Minus side? Frankly it seems rushed. As one example not sure he got the 6139-6002 Teal Sunrise summary info right. He glosses over the limited production months (he says 'about 3' months - which 3? 2N & 2D we know for sure so might be the other?) or even why it is nicknamed "Sunrise". Yet I learned why some have orange seconds hands and others yellow. I see more than a few overlooked opportunities to have added value with fine points that were just flat-out missed chances to educate. This reduces the value of the volume as a reference tool.
I think the author could have passed the manuscript around to more people to gather more perspective and knowledge. It is common to ask for peer review especially on specific chapters with acknowleged subject matter experts to broaden the base and get better content. I wish he had done that on every model he covers.
Frankly at this price point it relies too heavily on becoming a repository for catalog cuts and vintage advertisements (you will also see many of the ones you know well not shown, too). All these catalog cuts just seem like 'filler material.' We are talking roughly 120 out of the 200 pages. It's not that the reader doesn't enjoy thumbing through them but it's already out there on the web in numerous places so it leaves me feeling like the book used them mostly just to get fattened up.
All in all with so many nice photos to drool over, good stories, Eric, Bertrand and Anthony's contributed photos - no one will be sorry they bought it. I also don't think anyone will be sorry they didn't pay the publishers release price. I am thankful to my kind friend who loaned me the book knowing
I had passed on the purchase but had interest in seeing it. I am comfortable not owning it as much as most owners will be comfortable to have purchased it. It's that kind of a value proposition.
That's my review in a nutshell and I'm sticking to it. Please feel free to take issue with anything I posted. I do not mean to discredit the fine effort by the author to whom I send my thanks for his considerable time and energy putting this together.
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Post by nordlys on Jan 30, 2020 2:16:48 GMT -8
I just got a copy on loan and must say I am rather ambivalent. Of course it was a good read and any of us who pick it up will be happy we did so, but it's not without some fair criticism. Plus side - compelling story telling of the development of all sorts of 1960s chronos, and the "proof" of Seiko 6139 being the world's first automatic chronograph. So happy Ryugo-san interviewed the designers while they are still alive and well and able to recount these significant chapters in Seiko history and horology overall. That is by far the book's major accomplishment. Congratulations for documenting all of this fascinating material. It sure had some great photos. Covers the earliest chrome-rimmed crystals on the 6139-6000 and the 6139-603X in French and Italian dress. Great info on Seiko moving first itself, and then bringing the industry, out of using Ligne measurements into mm to improve precision. Great info on dial texture finishing technique options Seiko used in it's design heyday. Loads more good stuff. Like I said, lots to enjoy. Minus side? Frankly it seems rushed. As one example not sure he got the 6139-6002 Teal Sunrise summary info right. He glosses over the limited production months (he says 'about 3' months - which 3? 2N & 2D we know for sure so might be the other?) or even why it is nicknamed "Sunrise". Yet I learned why some have orange seconds hands and others yellow. I see more than a few overlooked opportunities to have added value with fine points that were just flat-out missed chances to educate. This reduces the value of the volume as a reference tool. I think the author could have passed the manuscript around to more people to gather more perspective and knowledge. It is common to ask for peer review especially on specific chapters with acknowleged subject matter experts to broaden the base and get better content. I wish he had done that on every model he covers. Frankly at this price point it relies too heavily on becoming a repository for catalog cuts and vintage advertisements (you will also see many of the ones you know well not shown, too). All these catalog cuts just seem like 'filler material.' We are talking roughly 120 out of the 200 pages. It's not that the reader doesn't enjoy thumbing through them but it's already out there on the web in numerous places so it leaves me feeling like the book used them mostly just to get fattened up. All in all with so many nice photos to drool over, good stories, Eric, Bertrand and Anthony's contributed photos - no one will be sorry they bought it. I also don't think anyone will be sorry they didn't pay the publishers release price. I am thankful to my kind friend who loaned me the book knowing I had passed on the purchase but had interest in seeing it. I am comfortable not owning it as much as most owners will be comfortable to have purchased it. It's that kind of a value proposition. That's my review in a nutshell and I'm sticking to it. Please feel free to take issue with anything I posted. I do not mean to discredit the fine effort by the author to whom I send my thanks for his considerable time and energy putting this together. Excellent measured and unbiased review. Your review confirmed my assumption that the type of content would be very similar to "The Seiko Book": About 70-80 pages of "meat" with the rest being filler advertisements. And I still stand by my claim that it's overpriced for what it offers. As I said in the other thread on the matter, "The Seiko Book" retailed for about $35 in today's dollars. IMO the length and scope of this Chrono book doesn't warrant a pricetag anywhere north of $50. |
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Post by groundhogman on Jan 30, 2020 12:14:36 GMT -8
Just checked with Ryugo. "Slow boat from Japan takes 1 to 3 months"........... Thanks ,I was getting worried it may of got lost as my tracing would not update. |
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Post by SeikoPsycho on Jan 30, 2020 15:10:26 GMT -8
Just checked with Ryugo. "Slow boat from Japan takes 1 to 3 months"........... Thanks ,I was getting worried it may of got lost as my tracing would not update. You're welcome! I'm looking forward to receiving my copy! |
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HiBeat
Global Moderator
SEIKO Iko Iko GDTRWS
Posts: 8,663
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Post by HiBeat on Jan 30, 2020 15:50:05 GMT -8
Thanks ,I was getting worried it may of got lost as my tracing would not update. You're welcome! I'm looking forward to receiving my copy! Tom you're the kind of guy the author should have reached out to in order to supplement it with more information. It could have been a more valuable all-around reference book. Right now it stands on its merit as a great recitation of the history behind the developments but that's about it. |
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Post by SeikoPsycho on Jan 31, 2020 2:57:49 GMT -8
You're welcome! I'm looking forward to receiving my copy! Tom you're the kind of guy the author should have reached out to in order to supplement it with more information. It could have been a more valuable all-around reference book. Right now it stands on its merit as a great recitation of the history behind the developments but that's about it. Thanks Jon! I actually had a discussion with Ryugo while placing an order for his book. I shared some of the info I've gathered over the years and he mentioned that he wished he had known me before hand in order to contribute to his book. He also asked if I'd consider contributing to his next book. I told him I'd be happy to contribute so it looks like there may be something in the pipeline for the future. As with all things WIS, Time will tell. |
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Post by akable on Feb 1, 2020 22:56:42 GMT -8
And I still stand by my claim that it's overpriced for what it offers. As I said in the other thread on the matter, "The Seiko Book" retailed for about $35 in today's dollars. IMO the length and scope of this Chrono book doesn't warrant a pricetag anywhere north of $50. I would be interested in any suggestions that you have for short print run production book companies that would make it possible to release a book today for a $50 price point. The production numbers on these books are quite small and the audience is relatively limited. The Seiko book was produced 20 years ago when there were significantly more printing companies around and there was just beginning to be a drop in print media so companies had excess capacity at the time. If you factor in the amount of time that it would take to prepare the content for the book, interviews, research, writing, editing, proofing etc. I do not think it it realistic to expect the sale price to be at the $50 point. Tom you're the kind of guy the author should have reached out to in order to supplement it with more information. It could have been a more valuable all-around reference book. Right now it stands on its merit as a great recitation of the history behind the developments but that's about it. Thanks Jon! I actually had a discussion with Ryugo while placing an order for his book. I shared some of the info I've gathered over the years and he mentioned that he wished he had known me before hand in order to contribute to his book. He also asked if I'd consider contributing to his next book. I told him I'd be happy to contribute so it looks like there may be something in the pipeline for the future. As with all things WIS, Time will tell. I think that is a pretty fair and balanced review Jon. I do agree that it would have been great to have some more content included as I am always looking for more information. Often there is a lot of details that you learn over the years and they do seem to just be common knowledge once you have been in this a while, so trying to understand what is obvious vs collecting information that would be useful to readers can be difficult to determine. Tom, what type of information do you think should have been added to the book to make it an all-around reference? I am not sure what I would have included when I actually try to come up with specific topics to cover. It would be interesting to hear others comments. |
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Post by nordlys on Feb 1, 2020 23:43:09 GMT -8
And I still stand by my claim that it's overpriced for what it offers. As I said in the other thread on the matter, "The Seiko Book" retailed for about $35 in today's dollars. IMO the length and scope of this Chrono book doesn't warrant a pricetag anywhere north of $50. I would be interested in any suggestions that you have for short print run production book companies that would make it possible to release a book today for a $50 price point. The production numbers on these books are quite small and the audience is relatively limited. The Seiko book was produced 20 years ago when there were significantly more printing companies around and there was just beginning to be a drop in print media so companies had excess capacity at the time. If you factor in the amount of time that it would take to prepare the content for the book, interviews, research, writing, editing, proofing etc. I do not think it it realistic to expect the sale price to be at the $50 point. Thanks Jon! I actually had a discussion with Ryugo while placing an order for his book. I shared some of the info I've gathered over the years and he mentioned that he wished he had known me before hand in order to contribute to his book. He also asked if I'd consider contributing to his next book. I told him I'd be happy to contribute so it looks like there may be something in the pipeline for the future. As with all things WIS, Time will tell. I think that is a pretty fair and balanced review Jon. I do agree that it would have been great to have some more content included as I am always looking for more information. Often there is a lot of details that you learn over the years and they do seem to just be common knowledge once you have been in this a while, so trying to understand what is obvious vs collecting information that would be useful to readers can be difficult to determine. Tom, what type of information do you think should have been added to the book to make it an all-around reference? I am not sure what I would have included when I actually try to come up with specific topics to cover. It would be interesting to hear others comments. This book is in magazine-style bound softcover format, arguably the cheapest print format. Even in a limited production run of a few hundred copies, there are book printers in China/Hong Kong that could print a short magazine-format book like this for less than $10 per copy. Most people who do limited-run, niche books go through one of the numerous print shops in Hong Kong for jobs like this. www.regalprinting.com.hk/quotation.shtmlI can offer an example from another field of a niche-market book that offers much better value for money. Another one of my hobbies is gemology, particularly spinels and sapphires. I pick them up while traveling in SE Asia and sell them on the side. The single most well-known expert in this field is Richard Hughes, founder of Lotus Gemology. He has dedicated his life to corundum and, quite literally, wrote the book(s) on ruby and sapphire. I have both of his most comprehensive books, "Ruby and Sapphire: A Collector's Guide" and "Ruby and Sapphire: A Gemologist's Guide." ***Google "Lotus Gemology" to find the books. Don't know if posting linking to the order page is appropriate here.*** The former "Collector's Guide" is more geared to amateur collectors and discusses the history of corundum dating back to the first civilizations in what is now Sri Lanka, and then covers the ways they are classified, differentiated and graded. Of the close to 400 pages, about 250 pages are all-original text written by the author (no recycled advertisements) and the other 150 pages contain 400 photomicrographs of inclusions taken by the author and his family (his daughter is one of the leaders in the field of photomicrography and has one several academic and popular-science awards for her work). Again, no recycled photos taken from the internet. The latter "Gemologist's Guide" is one of the most comprehensive, informative books I've read on ANY subject, and I'm an academic. It's more focused on the science of corundum and how it is formed, while also covering gemological testing of corundum and treatments it may be subjected to. Once again, of the 800+ pages and 1000 photos, all of the content is original to the author and his family and is the synthesis of his 30+ years of work on the subject. If I could choose to keep only one of my books on gemology, it would be this one. Both of these books are printed in silk-bound hardcover format and are absolute behemoths. The paper feel and ink exudes quality and is some of the thickest stock I've ever felt. The "Collector's Guide" is about 2.1kg (4.5lbs) while the "Gemologist's Guide" is 4.5kg (9.5lbs). Even with the amount of work represented in these two books and the quality of the printing, Richard Hughes sells the 400-page "Collector's Guide" for under $100, while the 800-page "Gemologist's Guide" sells for a little under $200. Perhaps I'm spoiled by my prior experience with these two niche-market books, but when I compare the retail price of a hardcover/silk-bound tour de force like the sub-$100 " Collector's Guide" to this flimsy magazine-style chronograph book, there's no way in heck the chronograph book can justify a price of $125+. Just no way. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. But everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion. |
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Adrian-VTA
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Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Feb 2, 2020 2:29:29 GMT -8
I got the book and was fairly happy with it. There was a heap of info I'd never seen before and there is no way I could get to Japan and interview those guys for the price of the book. Having done some book printing previously, it can be a bit of a minefield. I can understand why Ryugo went local for his first book (I presume it's first?), as when you can speak to and deal with suppliers in person it considerably reduces risk. You know exactly what you are going to get because you can feel/touch/smell it before it's made. The downside of that as opposed to printing externally is pretty much always higher cost. Also being a low run book, you're basically snookered. The book is actually quite a challenge technically, as you are presenting it in two languages on a technical topic. Cross translation on technical terms is quite difficult. I've had to do it before in a previous job with global sourcing. For example, the term that a westerner would have for "capacitor" is different in Asian languages. Also, the verb expression in English is different to Asian languages. Another example, a "gasket" here is considered a "washer" in China. A washer to us generally has a completely different, but similar meaning. To me it means a metal washer for spreading load from a fastener, for example. I think the English presentation (I know 0 Japanese) was very good considering the challenge there. I totally understood the topic. I did like how it covered the SPORTS 3-hander models as well. I don't think they are talked about enough. My opinion is they are actually quite significant when you are talking points of difference at the time. There's just nothing like them really from the Swiss. It was interesting to see my suspicions confirmed on the development of the 61 chronos, and how they fitted in against the Quartz development. I do like the catalog pages printed in the book. I always find something in the hand much easier to refer to than a bunch of PDF's. I also found some of the annotations very interesting, for example, the notes about the intended market for the TIME SONAR series. Again, it's one of those market segments that literally, would only make sense to the Japanese culture. But now I know why you don't see many of them (I won't spoil it). The blueprint drawings were interesting. I'd love to see more in another book. I'd really like to see images of the prototype movements (if they exist) as well. The reasoning why the 61 series was developed also confirmed my theories and it was great to be right, yet again. All in all I enjoyed the content of the book. As others have mentioned I'd love to see the presentation on the next one stepped up with a hardcover and perhaps a thicker paper stock for the pages. Also I think the layout work overall could do with some fine tuning. I think the cost was on the high side, but if you really need to rationalise it, it is the cost of two pub nights that I won't remember, but I have a book I can read and enjoy at any time. Would love to add some of my own content and thoughts in any future books if akable is co-ordinating anything. |
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sri
Can't Tell Time
Posts: 1
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Post by sri on Jun 29, 2020 10:06:21 GMT -8
ALLARM GUYS! Reservations are open for the new limited edition book, on the chronographs of the 5sports speedtimer series by the Japanese master S. Ryugo (one of the authors of the famous "the seiko book"). For book bookings you can write directly to s.ryugo@blue.megaegg.ne.jp |
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HiBeat
Global Moderator
SEIKO Iko Iko GDTRWS
Posts: 8,663
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Post by HiBeat on Jun 29, 2020 17:11:47 GMT -8
ALLARM GUYS! Reservations are open for the new limited edition book, on the chronographs of the 5sports speedtimer series by the Japanese master S. Ryugo (one of the authors of the famous "the seiko book"). For book bookings you can write directly to s.ryugo@blue.megaegg.ne.jp You quoted the first post in this thread but added nothing. Was that a mistake trying to reply ? Please elaborate and Welcome to WristSushi |
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