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Post by joshua on Mar 27, 2020 2:21:26 GMT -8
As someone who is new to this pastime, here are a few things I've learned over the past several months...
Mostly due to my own steep learning curve, and because I'm focused mostly on vintage pieces, I'm having a difficult time identifying which watches are original and which are... not so much. And also determining what is a good price that benefits the seller and the buyer, so both parties win. It's even more difficult over the internet and not in person. The good news is I'm learning a lot, the bad news is I've encountered a fair number of sellers who are less than 100% transparent or forthcoming on what they are selling (not on this site - I've had only positive experiences here). Price is not really an issue for me - I am happy with low priced watches as well as high priced watches - as long as I know what I am getting. One thing I really like about this forum is that it is reputation based, and more or less self regulates. I think members would not burn their good reputation by doing something sketchy for a few bucks. It will surprise exactly no one to hear that other sales platforms, i.e. ebay, seem to have a fair share questionable characters. I honestly haven't had any negative experience that cost me money, but definitely a few that wasted my time. I'm always up front, willing to video chat or whatever, but I've had a few sellers who insist I wire money first, refuse to clearly answer questions about the item - definitely weird behavior to me which raised flags and turned me right off. I'm sure there are some shady buyers too, it's just that I'm usually buying, not selling, so I don't meet them.
So anyway, learning as I go, but happy to have a solid community here...
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Fergus
Needs a Life!
Posts: 2,947
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Post by Fergus on Mar 27, 2020 3:56:51 GMT -8
It's a BIG learning curve.
Enhanced lately by the current world situation where many are locked inside with nothing to do so they list a few items on ebay. Some honest and some not...they may just need the money somehow.
Most of the faking/am work is going on with divers (6309/6306/7002) and chronographs (6138/6139) so Google these with search wording on the FAKE side.
There are many fake Presages coming out of India along with the normal stream of 6309 type dress watches...most noticable by their larger than life MADE IN JAPAN or JAPAN MADE dials.
Also beware of Gumtree and Shpock...where I have been sent to the side lines for 2 months by both for pointing out fakes.
Fake Presage on ebay...https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-Presage-AUTOMATIC-deep-blue-HAU-DATE-Sichtboden-mit-Box-Handbuch-4R35A/193398731282?hash=item2d07767212:g:KAoAAOSwS~Refc6K
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Post by nordlys on Mar 27, 2020 4:09:08 GMT -8
but I've had a few sellers who insist I wire money first, refuse to clearly answer questions about the item - definitely weird behavior to me which raised flags and turned me right off. If any seller exhibits these behaviors, run away immediately. They're scammers. As donj said, the vintage market is a minefield filled with AM/refinished dials, overpolished cases, weird frankenwatch/movement swaps, etc. You really need to do your homework to figure out what you're buying. Many sellers are just outright dishonest, but you'll also run into sellers who are simply ignorant that what they're selling is not original. For example, refinished dials keep getting better and better, to the point where it's reeallllyyy difficult to tell a re-finished dial from an original unless you know what to look for. A naïve amateur may list a watch on Ebay that was sold to them as "all original" by a dishonest seller, and they're simply passing along what they were told. When in doubt, post a watch you're interested in on the "Seiko or Feiko" thread here on WristSushi. Many members here really know their Seiko Chronographs and excel at pointing out the smallest details on, for example, an AM Pogue dial. To add to the list of places to be careful of, definitely watch out over on r/WatchExchange. There's one particular seller who I know for a fact has posted several vintage Seikos with obviously refinished dials that he lists as "All original" and horribly overpolished cases that he lists as "Unpolished." I've pointed several examples out to the Mods over there, and the Mods are usually good about taking down the examples are are obviously not original if someone reports them, but there's many more that are suspicious that are left up for sale. The fact that he continues to post on there and has not been banned despite clearly mislabeling several watches is incredibly suspicious to me. |
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Post by Groundhog66 on Mar 27, 2020 6:43:29 GMT -8
If a deal doesn't feel right, take a pass. eBay has turned into quite the shit show in recent years, not like it was ever fantastic, but at least it was "fairly" abundant with decent offerings.
We have a fantastic community here, and SO many members will bend over backwards to help if they can.
On a forum for one of my other hobbies, I had a potential sale go sideways yesterday. I had a WTB thread, and had a new member respond that he had what I was looking for, even posted a pic. I got a bad feeling, it was just too easy, so I asked for a pic of the item, along with a scrap paper with the date handwritten on it. It was at that point when the communication ceased, and it turned out that the pic of the item was harvested from a random website.
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Post by tomw86 on Mar 27, 2020 7:02:56 GMT -8
It's taken me a few years to be happy enough when browsing listings to know what's worth looking at and what isn't - and its cost me a few pennies to earn that experience too!
These days of easy information have meant that even the most clueless of sellers can find out what they have before they come to sell, so long gone are the listings of 'seiko watch' with one or two blurry photos that turn out to be a near mint 6139 or 6105.
That just makes it even more fun when you do find such a rarity out there 😁.
My advice for what it's worth is to avoid the most professional looking listings on eBay and the like with the shiny polished watches in them - far too many contain junk innards or to stick to fora like this one where people are normally honest and straightforward.
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7s26b
Timekeeper
Tmesis
Posts: 233 
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Post by 7s26b on Mar 27, 2020 7:28:26 GMT -8
Caveat emptor!!!
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Post by sweephand on Mar 27, 2020 9:09:51 GMT -8
If you are interested in vintage Citizen pieces, feel free to ask for my observations - you can do it via my blog (see my sig). I can safely say that it's always best to ask before you buy, not after!
Stephen
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Post by Groundhog66 on Mar 27, 2020 9:24:39 GMT -8
If you are interested in vintage Citizen pieces, feel free to ask for my observations - you can do it via my blog (see my sig). I can safely say that it's always best to ask before you buy, not after!
Stephen I'd say that is very sound advice indeed! For Seiko inquiries, you can post them HERE for feedback. |
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Post by joshua on Mar 27, 2020 18:16:18 GMT -8
I like to get out on weekends and explore the street markets, but these days the quarantine situation has made that more difficult. At the street markets here, you are virtually never going to find anything truly exceptional. Like someone mentioned earlier - these guys more or less know what they have. But I sometimes find interesting pieces on the lower end of the spectrum. The trick is finding a fair price. I've had a few cases where I've found some old Seikos - well worn, but keeping accurate time - usually a less well known model, but still pretty neat. Trouble is I'm western and as soon as they see me taking a keen interest in a particular watch - they suddenly over inflate it's value. It's a street market - I have no problem taking a chance on an old watch for ~100usd, and if it's junk I'm not out much. But if the Chinese fellow gets an idea that I know something about the watch that he doesn't, all of a sudden it's very valuable. If I'm going to pay retail price, I'd just as soon do it from a respected retail dealer. But that's the way of things bargaining here... Chinese are masters at bargaining - and patient.
I'll post some photos if the guys don't mind me taking them - sometimes they object.
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cobrajet25
Needs a Life!
"Underweared curmudgeon!"
Posts: 3,357
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Post by cobrajet25 on Mar 28, 2020 1:13:56 GMT -8
I was fortunate enough to get into this hobby back when Ebay 'puppy mill' sellers were non-existent and aftermarket parts weren't a thing yet. It was pretty easy to separate the wheat from the chaff. Nowadays, there are far more people buying vintage Seikos, far more people selling vintage Seikos, prices are much higher, and the aftermarket parts have gotten much harder to spot. With all the absolute garbage I see changing hands on the internet I sometimes shiver at the thought of being new to vintage Seikos today! Making a $100 mistake by buying the wrong watch 15 years ago sucked, but it is pretty easy to make a $1,000 mistake today.
Just ask questions here and you will get lots of good answers. The best advice I can offer is to ask BEFORE you buy. Sometimes, a new collector will pop in, show us his latest acquisition, and say, "Hey guys, how did I do with this one?"
It is then our unfortunate task to tell them they didn't do very well at all... |
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Post by ausseikocollector on Mar 28, 2020 14:58:46 GMT -8
As someone relatively new to vintage I’ve had to learn the hard way myself. I’ve only been burned once and it was only for a couple of hundred bucks. It’s the dishonesty that pisses me off. I soon discovered that my vintage slim turtle had an aftermarket dial, hand set, bezel and insert. The case was over polished. Yet the buyer maintained it was original and untouched! I don’t necessarily have a problem with after market parts, things fall apart and need replacing. You can’t always access OEM replacements, so to keep a loved watch going, sometimes it’s the only option. It’s the dishonesty that’s wrong. If the seller has full disclosure and the buyers knows what they are buying, then no problem. Then you have guys like this.. rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173802614259Someone is going to handover hard earned money for this garbage 🤬 |
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