6139 sweep hand fitting question

[leffemonster]

I feel like I should know this, but I’m a little confused...

When fitting a NOS chrono sweep hand using the VTA S-501 holder, I’m aware I need to remove the oscillating weight but do I also need to remove the automatic device framework, or leave that in situ? I just don’t want to risk buffering something up for the sake of asking a simple question...

[Deleted]

You need to remove the automatic work completely so that you can see the jewel of the chronograph wheel pivot. Make sure the spigot contacts the jewel. If not, you will push the train wheel jewel out of the plate and the whole power of the mainspring will release in a few seconds and the hands will spin around the dial at an alarming rate!

Ashton

[leffemonster]

May 8, 2020 3:25:45 GMT -8 @ashtonhorologist said:

You need to remove the automatic work completely so that you can see the jewel of the chronograph wheel pivot. Make sure the spigot contacts the jewel. If not, you will push the train wheel jewel out of the plate and the whole power of the mainspring will release in a few seconds and the hands will spin around the dial at an alarming rate!

Ashton

Thanks for the clarification Ashton, much appreciated.

[HiBeat]

Nick let me share the little bit I know.  I've done a ton of these.   Might I add, for some odd reason, to really nail the chrono seconds hand, I find it best to line it up 2/5 second to the left of perfect 12/60.   It seems to twist a tad to the right (clockwise) when I press it down.   Take that for whatever it is worth.  It works for me.

Note that the 6139A requires a different chrono jewel support than the 6139B.

So like Ashton says above be sure you are using the right style holder.

I have one for each style.

- Vintage Seiko holder for 6139A   Shown below, on top, single silver pusher
- Earliest version if the VTA for 6139Bs lower photo 2 red pushers
If I recall the newer VTA later ones can be flipped over as needed maybe?

The center jewel support height is shown below in the photos.  I hope this is helpful for everyone !

[leffemonster]

Thanks Jon! I can concur - the hand does indeed slip a little. I positioned mine at 59 and it pressed on at just past 12/60, so resets a tad past 12 o’clock (but not enough to make me try again!)

The newer VTA holders have an allen key adjustable dowel, so it was just a case of checking it was against the bridge before fitting.

[yorkiesknob]

Thanks for the post leffemonster. Couldn't have come at a better time for me,as I was going to post the same question on  hand setting 6139/38s. I'm nearly in a position to attempt my first go with the hands and getting a bit nervy about it. I have the new version of VTA's holder so I'm all good there.

Can anyone please talk me through/tips on setting the subdial on the 6139 and the two on the 6138. Also how to make any adjustments to get the hands bang on zero.

Is there any video's on the setting procedure?

Thanks as always Tony

[Adrian-VTA]

Geday,

There's two versions of the SEIKO original tool, S-500 and S-501. Early S-500's have plastic dowels.

The 500 is for the A variant, 501 for the B.

The A movement is very slightly shorter than the B movement.

When I originally designed my tool, I designed it for the B. Most of the A hands slip on fairly easily anyway (e.g. they are stretched and loose as the A hands have a thinner tube on the hand boss). I made the assumption there weren't tons of A variant watches out there.

After some time on the field, it became clear I needed to change something as B hands were getting fitted to A movements, B stop plates and centre wheels going on A baseplates etc. So that's why I put the dowel in, so one tool can handle both movements plus any weird stuff.

I ended up deleting the additional dowel for the minute accumulator hand as I'm yet to push a bush out with these and they are fairly well supported anyway. It just saved a bit of time when making the tools.

To make it more complex, the tool needs to accommodate 4? I think variations on dial rings, so the newer versions of the tool have several steps in the top to handle that. The dowel handles the height differences and there's a viewing window on the side so you can see the height of the dowel vs. plate.

An offer that still stands to forum members is if you have one of the ancient tools, I'm happy to replace the base at no cost for you to the latest version. The pushers work across all the tools and don't need changing, just the newer ones are captive in the tool (you don't need this to use the tool).

[yorkiesknob]

Timely post Adrian,

                          Just use your updated version today. My very first attempt at setting set of chrono hands. I had to psych myself up as I didn't want to stuff up . So after 2 days of thinking about it, I gave it a shot this morning. 6139 6020 1969 proof Pulse was the candidate  Totally surprise myself as I cracked it first attempt. More luck then good management maybe.

The second and sub-dial hands return to zero spot. Hopefully I haven't peaked too early as I'm working on  two proofs and two resists plus a 6138. Steady steady wins the race for this newbie in the watch fettling game.

Thanks Tony.

PS,  Thanks Adrian,the selection of screws and bits and bobs have come in real handy. Tweezers skills however are improving with time.

[Mr.Jones]

May 11, 2020 22:29:19 GMT -8 Adrian-VTA said:

Geday,

There's two versions of the SEIKO original tool, S-500 and S-501. Early S-500's have plastic dowels.

The 500 is for the A variant, 501 for the B.

The A movement is very slightly shorter than the B movement.

When I originally designed my tool, I designed it for the B. Most of the A hands slip on fairly easily anyway (e.g. they are stretched and loose as the A hands have a thinner tube on the hand boss). I made the assumption there weren't tons of A variant watches out there.

After some time on the field, it became clear I needed to change something as B hands were getting fitted to A movements, B stop plates and centre wheels going on A baseplates etc. So that's why I put the dowel in, so one tool can handle both movements plus any weird stuff.

I ended up deleting the additional dowel for the minute accumulator hand as I'm yet to push a bush out with these and they are fairly well supported anyway. It just saved a bit of time when making the tools.

To make it more complex, the tool needs to accommodate 4? I think variations on dial rings, so the newer versions of the tool have several steps in the top to handle that. The dowel handles the height differences and there's a viewing window on the side so you can see the height of the dowel vs. plate.

An offer that still stands to forum members is if you have one of the ancient tools, I'm happy to replace the base at no cost for you to the latest version. The pushers work across all the tools and don't need changing, just the newer ones are captive in the tool (you don't need this to use the tool).

That's a very generous offer!
How can we see if we have the "old" version?

[Fergus]

Update on this topic.

I recently purchased both the S-500 and S-501 movement holders.

As they arrived.



When it came to use the S-501 the movement wobbled way too much. Even though it did not seem right I Percy Veered and set the hands.

Today I decided to research the tool and coincidentally found this topic along with various pics of both holders.

So it would appear my 501 (for B movements) has been modified to be used as a 500 (for A movements) by adding a small washer under the pin. The listing did say 'USED' so I must assume the user added the 0.5mm washer to make it dual use (A+B)

With the washer the depth = that stated above 1.5mm, without it's 1.0mm.





With the movement install you can just feel it sitting on the centre stem.

[inboost]

Good info, thanks for sharing Fergus! I've been baffled by modified tooling (that I didn't know was modified) before.

[pip]

That’s great info, and also seems to be a great idea!