Seikomatic Weekdater

[japroe]

I stumbled upon this Seikomatic Weekdater and then (as typical) of researching the weekdater model. I noticed a couple cool things in what I found:
- It could be one of Seiko’s first watches using 33 jewels (I couldn’t confirm from my short research) and this was the predecessor to the Seiko 6206 that simplified from 33 to 26 jewels.
- Seikomatic vs. Seiko at the top of the dial and the unique day window in the center add a different and almost mid century feel to the watch.
- The reference number along the bottom of the dial is unlike a Seiko I’ve seen before, perhaps it’s replaced or something? It says Japan and then a series of letters/numbers followed by A.D. at the end. Typically used to seeing a four (or two) digit code(s) after Japan or made in Japan.

imgur.com/gallery/bDVe06D

What are the expert’s opinions on this reference? Any history that I’m missing or have incorrect?

Cheers,
Derek

[Fergus]

My 21 J dial has DIASHOCK JAPAN (6 marker) 6619-8010TAD

[HiBeat]

I have a few of these in need of repair.   For whatever reason they do not command much money even when really nice.

They have all the cool factor and classic lines and clean dials and are very much underappreciated in my opinion.

[huangcjz]

May 22, 2020 5:36:27 GMT -8 japroe said:

I stumbled upon this Seikomatic Weekdater and then (as typical) of researching the weekdater model. I noticed a couple cool things in what I found:
- It could be one of Seiko’s first watches using 33 jewels (I couldn’t confirm from my short research) and this was the predecessor to the Seiko 6206 that simplified from 33 to 26 jewels.
- Seikomatic vs. Seiko at the top of the dial and the unique day window in the center add a different and almost mid century feel to the watch.
- The reference number along the bottom of the dial is unlike a Seiko I’ve seen before, perhaps it’s replaced or something? It says Japan and then a series of letters/numbers followed by A.D. at the end. Typically used to seeing a four (or two) digit code(s) after Japan or made in Japan.

imgur.com/gallery/bDVe06D

What are the expert’s opinions on this reference? Any history that I’m missing or have incorrect?

Cheers,
Derek

I know exactly where those photos are from on reddit - that seller is always way over-priced. You can get one in far better condition, without water damage and corrosion to the dial (see the green copper salts around the 12 o'clock index), for less than $240 USD. It is Seiko's first watch with 33 jewels, but 9 of those jewels are not really functional - it has an inflated jewel-count for marketing reasons, so the later 26-jewel version does not perform worse on account of its lower jewel count. (In fact, even the 26-jewel version has an inflated jewel count, with 2 non-functional jewels). It has a mid-century feel, because that's exactly when it's from - it's said that they were produced from July 1963 to February 1965. Their successors (the line split into two), the 6206A and 6218A, were released in May 1964 and April 1964 respectively, so there is some overlap in their production. Seikomatic was the brand that Seiko used for some of their automatic watches from 1960 until it was phased out between 1967 to 1969, being replaced by the Lord Matics. The dial code is MAWJ13H333AD, which is correct (sometimes this seller sells re-dials, but this one is not - this one is original). This uses Seiko's old numbering system. MAW represents the calibre in this watch - SeikoMAtic Weekdater (as with the 62MAS, which has a later, simplified, date-only version of this calibre, being Calibre 62 autoMAtic Self-dater, i.e. an automatic with a calendar function). J13 refers to the diameter of the dial, which Seiko used for the model numbers for their watches until around this time (you can tell if the number is a 4- or 5- digit number which is less than J17000/18000). The number refers to the dial diameter in lignes, with 1 ligne (1''')= 2.2558291 mm. The J prefix indicates that the dial diameter is an intermediate step (probably a half-step) between the number given and the next number up, so J13 = 13.5 lignes, so the dial diameter is just over 30.45 mm. H333 just refers to this particular style/type/model of dial. AD stands for Appliqué Dial, i.e. the markers are separate applied pieces made out of Rhodium-plated brass (the green copper salts from the water damage on the 12 o'clock index show the copper in the brass leaching out of the brass underneath the Rhodium plating), rather than being stamped from the surface of the dial. This requires more work to make, so was seen as fancier at the time (although even the most basic Seiko 5s have applied indices now-a-days), and means you don't get a distortion in the dial surface due to the stretching of the metal where the indices have been stamped through, but has the disadvantage of course that the indices, being separate pieces, can fall off, so Seiko still uses stamped indices in their high-end tool watches, such as divers' watches. (The quality depends on how you do the stamping, of course, e.g. as with minting coins - it is possible to do it without visible distortion of the dial surface). The triangle with 3 lines through it star symbol underneath the day window also indicates Appliqué Dial - Seiko used this symbol on the dial from the late 1950s (maybe 1958?) until around early 1965, when they dropped it, only having the AD code at the end of the dial code instead, which they retained for a while afterwards, as with the 6619 example given in the post above. The case model number of this watch is J13080 - so the J13 dial size prefix + 080 for the case variant number. (On a different, non-Weekdater, model, these two parts to the model number were split with a dot, i.e. J13.xxx). This model was introduced in 1963, right before Seiko changed their case numbering system to a transitional system that's closer to what they still use today - a different model of this watch from 1964 has the model number 40898/408980, which can be parsed as 400-8980, where the calibre number (in the old, 3-digit calibre numbering system) is 400, and the case number, in the system that's still used today, is 8980 (if the model number is 5 digits and greater than 18000, with the last 3 digits being the case number, then you need to add an extra zero to the end to turn the case number into the 4-digit version. If the model number is 6 digits, then you don't). Seiko started using the 2- or 4- digit calibre numbering system plus the 4-digit case numbering system that they still use today in around late 1964/the beginning of 1965.

[Fergus]

All those pics of the front and not one of the back.

That puzzle box would drive me made.

[huangcjz]

May 23, 2020 1:43:04 GMT -8 Fergus said:

All those pics of the front and not one of the back.

That puzzle box would drive me made.

There is a photo-graph of the case-back - if you click on the "Load 2 more photos" beneath the last photo which is auto-matically shown, it's the first photo of the 2 extra photos: i.imgur.com/wYRXyIW.jpg
It's worn-down, as these usually are, due to being pretty lightly acid-etched, but not worn completely smooth, as they often are - it's a typical Seiko 1963 to 1965 case-back.
I happen to have one with a fairly well-preserved case-back, which still retains some of the frosted, acid-etched back-ground: i.ibb.co/Zg93SWV/IMG-4121.jpg
My one has the original align-ment, with the Seiko being at the top and the dolphin being horizontal when the watch is placed like you see in my photo, with the side of the case which has the crown facing up-wards.

[japroe]

May 22, 2020 18:57:19 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

I have a few of these in need of repair.   For whatever reason they do not command much money even when really nice.

They have all the cool factor and classic lines and clean dials and are very much underappreciated in my opinion.

I agree with you, seems like a great piece to pick up eventually at a relatively affordable price. I'm adding it to the list (that seems to keep growing...)!

Derek

[japroe]

May 23, 2020 1:08:47 GMT -8 huangcjz said:

May 22, 2020 5:36:27 GMT -8 japroe said:

I stumbled upon this Seikomatic Weekdater and then (as typical) of researching the weekdater model. I noticed a couple cool things in what I found:
- It could be one of Seiko’s first watches using 33 jewels (I couldn’t confirm from my short research) and this was the predecessor to the Seiko 6206 that simplified from 33 to 26 jewels.
- Seikomatic vs. Seiko at the top of the dial and the unique day window in the center add a different and almost mid century feel to the watch.
- The reference number along the bottom of the dial is unlike a Seiko I’ve seen before, perhaps it’s replaced or something? It says Japan and then a series of letters/numbers followed by A.D. at the end. Typically used to seeing a four (or two) digit code(s) after Japan or made in Japan.

imgur.com/gallery/bDVe06D

What are the expert’s opinions on this reference? Any history that I’m missing or have incorrect?

Cheers,
Derek

I know exactly where those photos are from on reddit - that seller is always way over-priced. You can get one in far better condition, without water damage and corrosion to the dial (see the green copper salts around the 12 o'clock index), for less than $240 USD. It is Seiko's first watch with 33 jewels, but 9 of those jewels are not really functional - it has an inflated jewel-count for marketing reasons, so the later 26-jewel version does not perform worse on account of its lower jewel count. (In fact, even the 26-jewel version has an inflated jewel count, with 2 non-functional jewels). It has a mid-century feel, because that's exactly when it's from - it's said that they were produced from July 1963 to February 1965. Their successors (the line split into two), the 6206A and 6218A, were released in May 1964 and April 1964 respectively, so there is some overlap in their production. Seikomatic was the brand that Seiko used for some of their automatic watches from 1960 until it was phased out between 1967 to 1969, being replaced by the Lord Matics. The dial code is MAWJ13H333AD, which is correct (sometimes this seller sells re-dials, but this one is not - this one is original). This uses Seiko's old numbering system. MAW represents the calibre in this watch - SeikoMAtic Weekdater (as with the 62MAS, which has a later, simplified, date-only version of this calibre, being Calibre 62 autoMAtic Self-dater, i.e. an automatic with a calendar function). J13 refers to the diameter of the dial, which Seiko used for the model numbers for their watches until around this time (you can tell if the number is a 4- or 5- digit number which is less than J17000/18000). The number refers to the dial diameter in lignes, with 1 ligne (1''')= 2.2558291 mm. The J prefix indicates that the dial diameter is an intermediate step (probably a half-step) between the number given and the next number up, so J13 = 13.5 lignes, so the dial diameter is just over 30.45 mm. H333 just refers to this particular style/type/model of dial. AD stands for Appliqué Dial, i.e. the markers are separate applied pieces made out of Rhodium-plated brass (the green copper salts from the water damage on the 12 o'clock index show the copper in the brass leaching out of the brass underneath the Rhodium plating), rather than being stamped from the surface of the dial. This requires more work to make, so was seen as fancier at the time (although even the most basic Seiko 5s have applied indices now), and means you don't get a distortion in the dial surface due to the stretching of the metal where the indices have been stamped through, but has the disadvantage of course that the indices, being separate pieces, can fall off, so Seiko still uses stamped indices in their high-end tool watches, such as divers' watches. (The quality depends on how you do the stamping, of course, e.g. as with minting coins - it is possible to do it without visible distortion of the dial surface). The triangle with 3 lines through it star symbol underneath the day window also indicates Appliqué Dial - Seiko used this symbol on the dial from the late 1950s (maybe 1958?) until around early 1965, when they dropped it, only having the AD code at the end of the dial code instead, which they retained for a while afterwards, as with the 6619 example given in the post above. The case model number of this watch is J13080 - so the J13 dial size prefix + 080 for the case variant number. (On a different model, these two parts to the model number were split with a dot, i.e. J13.xxx). This model was introduced in 1963, right before Seiko changed their case numbering system to a transitional system that's closer to what they still use today - a different model of this watch from 1964 has the model number 40898/408980, which can be parsed as 400-8980, where the calibre number (in the old, 3-digit calibre numbering system) is 400, and the case number, in the system that's still used today, is 8980 (if the model number is 5 digits and greater than 18000, with the last 3 digits being the case number, then you need to add an extra zero to the end to turn the case number into the 4-digit version. If the model number is 6 digits, then you don't). Seiko started using the 2- or 4- digit calibre numbering system plus the 4-digit case numbering system that they still use today in around late 1964/the beginning of 1965.


Thanks for the incredibly detailed response and all the additional info, this is exactly what I was looking for! I'm going to add a Weekdater to my list as a piece I'd like to pick up down the road. It seems like you know quite a bit about these, which is your favorite model and what details/features do you like the most about it? Seiko's reference system is a puzzle in itself and these little tidbits of new information are awesome as I continue to learn more. 
Yes, I wasn't planning on purchasing that one for that price but it caught my eye, thanks again for looking out. What would you say is a fair price for one in decent condition?

Cheers,
Derek

[jennie]

May 23, 2020 1:08:47 GMT -8 huangcjz said:

May 22, 2020 5:36:27 GMT -8 japroe said:

I stumbled upon this Seikomatic Weekdater and then (as typical) of researching the weekdater model. I noticed a couple cool things in what I found:
- It could be one of Seiko’s first watches using 33 jewels (I couldn’t confirm from my short research) and this was the predecessor to the Seiko 6206 that simplified from 33 to 26 jewels.
- Seikomatic vs. Seiko at the top of the dial and the unique day window in the center add a different and almost mid century feel to the watch.
- The reference number along the bottom of the dial is unlike a Seiko I’ve seen before, perhaps it’s replaced or something? It says Japan and then a series of letters/numbers followed by A.D. at the end. Typically used to seeing a four (or two) digit code(s) after Japan or made in Japan.

imgur.com/gallery/bDVe06D

What are the expert’s opinions on this reference? Any history that I’m missing or have incorrect?

Cheers,
Derek

I know exactly where those photos are from on reddit - that seller is always way over-priced. You can get one in far better condition, without water damage and corrosion to the dial (see the green copper salts around the 12 o'clock index), for less than $240 USD. It is Seiko's first watch with 33 jewels, but 9 of those jewels are not really functional - it has an inflated jewel-count for marketing reasons, so the later 26-jewel version does not perform worse on account of its lower jewel count. (In fact, even the 26-jewel version has an inflated jewel count, with 2 non-functional jewels). It has a mid-century feel, because that's exactly when it's from - it's said that they were produced from July 1963 to February 1965. Their successors (the line split into two), the 6206A and 6218A, were released in May 1964 and April 1964 respectively, so there is some overlap in their production. Seikomatic was the brand that Seiko used for some of their automatic watches from 1960 until it was phased out between 1967 to 1969, being replaced by the Lord Matics. The dial code is MAWJ13H333AD, which is correct (sometimes this seller sells re-dials, but this one is not - this one is original). This uses Seiko's old numbering system. MAW represents the calibre in this watch - SeikoMAtic Weekdater (as with the 62MAS, which has a later, simplified, date-only version of this calibre, being Calibre 62 autoMAtic Self-dater, i.e. an automatic with a calendar function). J13 refers to the diameter of the dial, which Seiko used for the model numbers for their watches until around this time (you can tell if the number is a 4- or 5- digit number which is less than J17000/18000). The number refers to the dial diameter in lignes, with 1 ligne (1''')= 2.2558291 mm. The J prefix indicates that the dial diameter is an intermediate step (probably a half-step) between the number given and the next number up, so J13 = 13.5 lignes, so the dial diameter is just over 30.45 mm. H333 just refers to this particular style/type/model of dial. AD stands for Appliqué Dial, i.e. the markers are separate applied pieces made out of Rhodium-plated brass (the green copper salts from the water damage on the 12 o'clock index show the copper in the brass leaching out of the brass underneath the Rhodium plating), rather than being stamped from the surface of the dial. This requires more work to make, so was seen as fancier at the time (although even the most basic Seiko 5s have applied indices now), and means you don't get a distortion in the dial surface due to the stretching of the metal where the indices have been stamped through, but has the disadvantage of course that the indices, being separate pieces, can fall off, so Seiko still uses stamped indices in their high-end tool watches, such as divers' watches. (The quality depends on how you do the stamping, of course, e.g. as with minting coins - it is possible to do it without visible distortion of the dial surface). The triangle with 3 lines through it star symbol underneath the day window also indicates Appliqué Dial - Seiko used this symbol on the dial from the late 1950s (maybe 1958?) until around early 1965, when they dropped it, only having the AD code at the end of the dial code instead, which they retained for a while afterwards, as with the 6619 example given in the post above. The case model number of this watch is J13080 - so the J13 dial size prefix + 080 for the case variant number. (On a different model, these two parts to the model number were split with a dot, i.e. J13.xxx). This model was introduced in 1963, right before Seiko changed their case numbering system to a transitional system that's closer to what they still use today - a different model of this watch from 1964 has the model number 40898/408980, which can be parsed as 400-8980, where the calibre number (in the old, 3-digit calibre numbering system) is 400, and the case number, in the system that's still used today, is 8980 (if the model number is 5 digits and greater than 18000, with the last 3 digits being the case number, then you need to add an extra zero to the end to turn the case number into the 4-digit version. If the model number is 6 digits, then you don't). Seiko started using the 2- or 4- digit calibre numbering system plus the 4-digit case numbering system that they still use today in around late 1964/the beginning of 1965.

WOW, I can see that I have a lot of learning to do and this appears to be only one watch

[nordlys]

May 23, 2020 1:08:47 GMT -8 huangcjz said:

May 22, 2020 5:36:27 GMT -8 japroe said:

I stumbled upon this Seikomatic Weekdater and then (as typical) of researching the weekdater model. I noticed a couple cool things in what I found:
- It could be one of Seiko’s first watches using 33 jewels (I couldn’t confirm from my short research) and this was the predecessor to the Seiko 6206 that simplified from 33 to 26 jewels.
- Seikomatic vs. Seiko at the top of the dial and the unique day window in the center add a different and almost mid century feel to the watch.
- The reference number along the bottom of the dial is unlike a Seiko I’ve seen before, perhaps it’s replaced or something? It says Japan and then a series of letters/numbers followed by A.D. at the end. Typically used to seeing a four (or two) digit code(s) after Japan or made in Japan.

imgur.com/gallery/bDVe06D

What are the expert’s opinions on this reference? Any history that I’m missing or have incorrect?

Cheers,
Derek

I know exactly where those photos are from on reddit - that seller is always way over-priced. You can get one in far better condition, without water damage and corrosion to the dial (see the green copper salts around the 12 o'clock index), for less than $240 USD. 

Totally agree with huangcjz. The guy posts all the time on r/watchexchange. He's constantly lying through his teeth when it comes to the condition of watches. Saying things like "ALL ORIGINAL UNPOLISHED" when the case has clearly been hit pretty hard with a polishing wheel. He buys low-priced junk directly from Yahoo JP and re-lists it for 2X-3X higher on r/watchexchange. I've reported him a few times to the mods there for clearly misrepresenting pieces, and while they've made him take down those particular listings (including one particularly egregious lie where he listed a King Seiko as "ALL ORIGINAL VERY RARE TEAL DIAL" when the dial was clearly repainted because Seiko never made a teal dial in that particular reference), they still haven't banned him for some reason. He seems to have toned down his listings recently to avoid saying things like "ALL ORIGINAL UNPOLISHED", but I still wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

When I told my (Vietnamese-American) wife about him, she said "HE'S THE TYPE THAT MAKES VIETNAMESE PEOPLE LOOK BAD!"

[HiBeat]

May 23, 2020 1:08:47 GMT -8 huangcjz said:

May 22, 2020 5:36:27 GMT -8 japroe said:

I stumbled upon this Seikomatic Weekdater......What are the expert’s opinions on this reference? Any history that I’m missing or have incorrect?

Cheers,
Derek

It is Seiko's first watch with 33 jewels, but 9 of those jewels are not really functional - it has an inflated jewel-count for marketing reasons, so the later 26-jewel version does not perform worse on account of its lower jewel count. ...........This uses Seiko's old numbering system. MAW represents the calibre in this watch - SeikoMAtic Weekdater (as with the 62MAS, which has a later, simplified, date-only version of this calibre, being Calibre 62 autoMAtic Self-dater, i.e. an automatic with a calendar function). J13 refers to the diameter of the dial, which Seiko used for the model numbers for their watches until around this time (you can tell if the number is a 4- or 5- digit number which is less than J17000/18000). The number refers to the dial diameter in lignes........Seiko started using the 2- or 4- digit calibre numbering system plus the 4-digit case numbering system that they still use today in around late 1964/the beginning of 1965.

Thank you huangcjz I learned a lot there. Up until now the “J numbers” always seemed so random.

I have a J13080 basket case plus several other Weekdaters, all in need of resuscitation.

[japroe]

May 24, 2020 21:21:42 GMT -8 nordlys said:

May 23, 2020 1:08:47 GMT -8 huangcjz said:

I know exactly where those photos are from on reddit - that seller is always way over-priced. You can get one in far better condition, without water damage and corrosion to the dial (see the green copper salts around the 12 o'clock index), for less than $240 USD. 

Totally agree with huangcjz. The guy posts all the time on r/watchexchange. He's constantly lying through his teeth when it comes to the condition of watches. Saying things like "ALL ORIGINAL UNPOLISHED" when the case has clearly been hit pretty hard with a polishing wheel. He buys low-priced junk directly from Yahoo JP and re-lists it for 2X-3X higher on r/watchexchange. I've reported him a few times to the mods there for clearly misrepresenting pieces, and while they've made him take down those particular listings (including one particularly egregious lie where he listed a King Seiko as "ALL ORIGINAL VERY RARE TEAL DIAL" when the dial was clearly repainted because Seiko never made a teal dial in that particular reference), they still haven't banned him for some reason. He seems to have toned down his listings recently to avoid saying things like "ALL ORIGINAL UNPOLISHED", but I still wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

When I told my (Vietnamese-American) wife about him, she said "HE'S THE TYPE THAT MAKES VIETNAMESE PEOPLE LOOK BAD!"

Thanks for the additional feedback, really good to know. I always like to keep an eye out for potential wear transactions like this and will now know to look out for him.

Derek

[pip]

Excellent post huangcjz - I had not picked up any of that before.

[huangcjz]

May 24, 2020 12:42:30 GMT -8 japroe said:

Which is your favorite model and what details/features do you like the most about it? What would you say is a fair price for one in decent condition?

There is only the one you see in that photo, in stainless steel and in gold 20µm electroplate on base metal, for that model. My favourite Weekdater is probably the later 6206-8040, although it doesn't say "Weekdater" on the dial, and the 6218-8950, which says "Weekdater" on earlier versions of the dial, but not on later ones. For prices, see completed listings on eBay: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.XSeikomatic+Weekdater.TRS0&_nkw=Seikomatic+Weekdater&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Weekdater&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc