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Post by kimball on Sept 21, 2020 12:55:31 GMT -8
Hi All, Does anyone know what movement ring is required for a Seiko 6119-7420? I posted this on the new member forum but do not believe it gets enough traffic. I purchased the watch but it had excessive movement to the point where you couldn't do the quick set feature and could hear the rotor scrap the caseback. In this model the caseback is integrated into the whole case, and is an "open thru glass" model. From my research the ring is: It looks like the ring could is this part number: 83108440. Is this available anywhere? I'll be picking up the watch this week from the shop, unassembled to have an initial look at the inside. according to this website: case-ring 83108440Movement is one of these, but not sure which.Thanks for the help!
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HiBeat
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Post by HiBeat on Sept 21, 2020 17:30:29 GMT -8
Borel reports this: Maybe find a donor ?
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Post by kimball on Sept 22, 2020 20:18:08 GMT -8
I have not built or operated on a watch before and dont know much of vintage Seikos. Does this ring look like it would be appropriate? ebay linkI see others for different models are metal and have a ledge design to it looking like it would secure the movement more than just radially. Perhaps this one does too but I cannot find that part anywhere else and the ad doesn't show it from the side.
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Sept 22, 2020 21:36:28 GMT -8
I have not built or operated on a watch before and dont know much of vintage Seikos. Does this ring look like it would be appropriate? ebay linkI see others for different models are metal and have a ledge design to it looking like it would secure the movement more than just radially. Perhaps this one does too but I cannot find that part anywhere else and the ad doesn't show it from the side. 884614 is the Holding Ring for Dial which fits between the movement and the dial. Casing rings can be either metal or plastic. My recent acquisition a SEIKO Tech Guide concurs the 6119-742 case is one piece, open through glass. The schematic for that case does not show a case ring per se. It states the movement is held in place with a snap ring. A ring with 2 notches which engage the main plate. BUT on the schematic it does say (Another movement has case ring) which is somewhat ambiguous to say the least. We may need pics of your parts to decide further.
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Post by kimball on Sept 23, 2020 18:47:42 GMT -8
I am going to pick the watch up tomorrow to get better pictures of it. Hopefully there is a ring out there that can work.
I am not entirely certain i follow the difference between a movement ring and a case ring. Hopefully viewing it opened up with reveal what's needed.
Good thing to note, when I told the ebay seller she immediately issued full refund without asking (or expecting it).
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Sept 24, 2020 2:21:07 GMT -8
I am now lost (as other might be) as to the where, why and what of this watch.
I am sure there will be something out there albeit in another 7420.
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Sept 24, 2020 6:11:27 GMT -8
Are you sure the locking ring is missing and not just...unlocked? These don't have what we here usually call a 'casing ring'.
Your watch likely uses a thin, semi-circular ring than runs around a channel inside the case. When the crystal is removed, you will see a tab. That tab is rotated and the movement is freed from the case. They can be a bit fiddly, but I'd be surprised if it were missing.
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7s26b
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Post by 7s26b on Sept 24, 2020 7:21:48 GMT -8
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Sept 24, 2020 9:17:33 GMT -8
Which is all what I said in my post above
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7s26b
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Post by 7s26b on Sept 24, 2020 13:43:30 GMT -8
Which is all what I said in my post above Oh, I'm sorry, sir. I'm anaspeptic, phrasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation. (E.Blackadder)
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Post by kimball on Sept 24, 2020 19:01:31 GMT -8
attached are pictures of the case. Movement is in a little plastic holder. I would rather not get it out if I dont have to to keep it clean. There is an edge or lip holding in the movement from 1-3 oclock and also from 6 to 9. You can see in the pictures. Are these all thats needed to hold the movement in place? Art Dial said there is definitely a ring missing but he was unable to identify the part numbers and said Seiko neither confirmed or denied the part numbers I provided were right or wrong. Attachments:
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Sept 24, 2020 19:13:47 GMT -8
That is the snap ring which when rotated as per the above worksheet holds the movement in place.
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Post by kimball on Sept 24, 2020 19:31:49 GMT -8
last two pictures attached. I think everything might actually be there. I now understand the reference to the Locking ring that CobraJet25 noted. those tabs I show in the first two phots plus the case photo attached here can rotate freely. Perhaps it wasn't in place and locked in correctly. I don't have the tools to pull out the crown to give it a try on my own. Would another movement ring of some sort fit in this case as well? Attachments:
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Sept 24, 2020 20:29:03 GMT -8
Art Dial has obviously no experience with this attachment method. The left arrow is pointing at the crown/stem release lever. Pressing it gently down while pulling the crown will release it. The right arrow appears to be pointing at the snap ring groove. Follow the procedure in the above technical sheet....4. Operation method of snap ring. If only I were there but I’m not I’m here. But where is there. Not wishing to pee on your fireworks 7s26B but these exploded pics might assist. The following picture shows 4 types of case and snap ring fitting, left to right A, B, C & D You will need to determine which of these suits your case and movement.
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Sept 25, 2020 1:41:59 GMT -8
Art Dial has obviously no experience with this attachment method. The left arrow is pointing at the crown/stem release lever. Pressing it gently down while pulling the crown will release it.
Yes, and gently is the key. If you push it too hard the stem release mechanism will get stuck and you won't be able to lock the stem back into place.
Also, you are going to want to install the crown/stem before trying to secure the movement with the locking ring. If you try to turn the locking ring first the movement will tend to want to rotate inside the case along with the ring.
I actually kinda hate these cases.
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Post by kimball on Sept 25, 2020 13:14:16 GMT -8
Does this crystal require any compression tool to reinstall? I don't want to screw it up so will probably take it back to the shop for reassembly. I think the bezel secures the crystal in place, however the crystal can pass through the bezel without contact (slip fit). Does this mean it needs to be compressed in way? Also I don't want any specs on the dial or crystal. I would like to get into customizing my own watches at some point, though.
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Sept 25, 2020 23:40:00 GMT -8
Can we have the full story of this purchase.
Does it go,
1. You purchased the watch from ebay. 2. Upon receipt you passed it to Art Dial (who is what) 3. What did Art Dial do. 4. Art Dial could not recase it. 5. On Art Dials word you informed the ebay seller that parts were missing. She reimbursed you. 6. You regained it from Art Dial. 7. Have you now recased it. If so were parts missing. If not 5 ?
You say...Also I don't want any specs on the dial or crystal. Please explain.
Have you purchased a new crystal or are you reinstalling to old one.
The crystal requires press tooling i.e. plastic or aluminium dies and a press to install it.
There are a few 6119 models whose bezel is slightly larger than the crystal. I have installed the bezel first on some.
Perhaps someone with a younger brain than mine, now 67 year old, can fathom this out.
I'm off to finish Golden Oak Wood Staining my workshop exterior.
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Sept 26, 2020 2:08:14 GMT -8
Does this crystal require any compression tool to reinstall? I don't want to screw it up so will probably take it back to the shop for reassembly. I think the bezel secures the crystal in place, however the crystal can pass through the bezel without contact (slip fit). Does this mean it needs to be compressed in way? Also I don't want any specs on the dial or crystal. I would like to get into customizing my own watches at some point, though.
A crystal compression tool would be nice, but you should be able to get it in with a crystal press. That crystal should have a tension ring going around the inside.
The crystal is compressed against this ring with a tool and inserted in the case. Water resistance is achieved by the case pushing against the outside of the crystal while the tension ring pushes out towards the case from the inside.
Is the original crystal cracked/broken? If not, it can easily be refinished with some sandpaper and plastic polish.
This is the Seiko tool, but any competent watchmaker should have an equivalent. If you are interested in customizing and/or restoring your watches you are going to have to buy some basic tools.
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Post by kimball on Sept 26, 2020 16:14:18 GMT -8
Can we have the full story of this purchase. Does it go, 1. You purchased the watch from ebay. 2. Upon receipt you passed it to Art Dial (who is what) 3. What did Art Dial do. 4. Art Dial could not recase it. 5. On Art Dials word you informed the ebay seller that parts were missing. She reimbursed you. 6. You regained it from Art Dial. 7. Have you now recased it. If so were parts missing. If not 5 ? You say...Also I don't want any specs on the dial or crystal. Please explain. Have you purchased a new crystal or are you reinstalling to old one. The crystal requires press tooling i.e. plastic or aluminium dies and a press to install it. There are a few 6119 models whose bezel is slightly larger than the crystal. I have installed the bezel first on some. Perhaps someone with a younger brain than mine, now 67 year old, can fathom this out. I'm off to finish Golden Oak Wood Staining my workshop exterior. I sense a bit of hostility here? What did I say to make you judge me so? I honestly didn't ask or expect refund. All I had said was the watch didn't work when setting the time because the movement moved around a lot and that the play clunked against the case. I asked if it had been opened by the seller. Art Dial is a local watchmaker as I believe the are called. I searched around and this one had the best reviews I could find. He reviewed the watch and communicated to me via email throughout saying they were searching for the part required. They gave it back to me fully assembled. I asked him to disassemble it again so I could take pictures and ask those here for help. He disassembled it and provided it back within minutes. The crystal is the original that came with the watch. Not 100% certain its completely original but according to the shape the watch is in I bet it is. By not wanting any specs on the dial or crystal, I meant clean. I didn't want to see specs of dirt in there once it assembled. cobrajet25 I will be taking it back to Art Dial for cleaning and reassemble. I will probably start working on my own watch on a standard SKX or something that, should I break it, there's gobs of spares and parts lying around to do as I will.
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Sept 26, 2020 16:56:19 GMT -8
Hostility Just trying to fully understand what was going on. If you read my previous replies I was/am trying to assist.
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