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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 11:31:09 GMT -8
First off a little about me! I'm nobody special. I do however like sharing my knowledge with folk to stop them making the same mistakes I did. So here are a few pointers to help keep you sane...
So I started off with 6139 movements.... yep in at the deep end! But I have had a little experience with time pieces over the years. I ran a antique clock sales and restoration business here in the UK for over 15 years. So I thought it's just gears and springs and bombs what could go wrong!.....
So after f99kin up 5 or so 6139 movements on the trot I suddenly developed "the touch". This is the point when you hopefully stop busting them. So I now had 5 x 6139 watches to repair! I guess that means don't give up.
A few things have helped me a lot.
Screwdrivers
First off NO CHEAP SCREWDRIVERS! Buy a set of Bergeon ones and stop moaning about the cost! Or at least buy Bergeon replacement blades for your cheap Chinese screw drivers! All the damage you see inside a watch is caused because someone didn't use the correct profile blade to undo or tighten a screw. Make sure the blade fits into the slot with no lateral movement! Very important that bit. Only turn with sideways motion. NO PRESSING DOWN. If you press down you are applying pressure that converts to scratched parts when "you do" slip. Practice on some old scrap movements.
Tweasers
Buy old Swiss tweezers off eBay or the like. I make my own brass tweezers as they are kinder to soft surfaces like dials and hands. It's just one bit of brass folded over and a bit of filing! OK hand engraving my initials is a bit OTT but it's what I do! You don't need many.
Magnification Is king! If you magnify something it helps control "the touch" that I spoke of earlier. I have a good pair of jewellers loops and a cheap arse 1,000,000x magnification watchmakers magnifier from the Chinese section of the Amazon. The beauty of these cheap magnification setups is they do allow you to easily repair hairsprings and check jewel condition. Believe me watchmaking will make you go blind!
Hammers The bigger the better.
Holders
Another thing people overlook. I have one Bergeon movement holder. I also have a few Seiko movement holders including the S-680 holder set. Very handy indeed for Seiko fans.
Oil Automatic oilers are accurate but expensive to fix when you break a needle and need a bit of practice. I like dip oilers personally but I do own a Bergeon automatic oiler.
Most importantly DON'T OVER OIL! These things don't need to run in oil. The general rule of thumb is if you can see a blob of oil on the oiler it's too much! Oil actually slows a movement down with friction. This is why the late and seriously great George Daniels escapement is such a step forward for chronometers. Look George up if you don't know who I am talking about. Genius.
Cases & Crystals Just buy decent tools for the job. Buy a case opener that allows you to place the watch down not one you hold in your hand. I always wondered when I'd chop a arm off when I slipped.
The Bergeon 8008 (Yes I know it says boob and that also makes it great) the rubber ball. Get one. Dead helpful and cheap enough. Crystal press. I use a Seiko one. I also have a cheap screw down type. These are great! but you can over tighten and bust that crystal if you're not careful. Case back openers. Since I was given a old Bergeon case back opener I've not had a single slippage. That says it all really. Polishing cases. Well most people make a pigs ear of this so just don't! They look terrible all shiny and over polished but each to their own.
I could harp on but most of it is common sense. A good clean work surface. Good knees on your trousers for when you go searching for those tiny watch parts you just dropped out of the tweezers for the 10th time. I own a good quality ultrasonic cleaner but I had that already for the clock business.
Those are all lessons I have learnt along the way. There are obviously different views about this sort of stuff but frankly I don't care this works for me and that's all that matters in my books. Hopefully I can help save a few scratched movements along the way.
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Post by leffemonster on Feb 5, 2021 11:55:47 GMT -8
Some good advice there Tony. +1 on the screwdrivers for sure. If you don’t want to splash out on Bergeon then AF are a good cheaper alternative, or even Cousins own-brand. Like you say, you can always splash out on Bergeon blades.
What I found made a huge difference to me were - magnification (I use a 10x stereo microscope), a decent ultrasonic cleaner (Allendale in my case), proper fluids (L&R) and a timegrapher.
I’ve contemplated picking up one of those knock-off 5700 case openers off Amazon but am unsure if I’d just be chucking away my money.
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HiBeat
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Post by HiBeat on Feb 5, 2021 13:16:16 GMT -8
Thank you Tony. Highly informative and frankly a fun / funny read, too !
I have done so many train side restos (I am a parts swapper only) and dial side fixes but never a complete down to pieces rebuild. I am getting up the courage to do it - this is really timely for me.
I see you guys doing these teardowns and I just want to get it going !
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small
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Post by small on Feb 5, 2021 17:49:53 GMT -8
I think you forgot a good cup of patients.
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tritto
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Post by tritto on Feb 5, 2021 18:19:42 GMT -8
I think you forgot a good cup of patients. Patients? I have plenty of those. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 1:37:19 GMT -8
Some good advice there Tony. +1 on the screwdrivers for sure. If you don’t want to splash out on Bergeon then AF are a good cheaper alternative, or even Cousins own-brand. Like you say, you can always splash out on Bergeon blades. What I found made a huge difference to me were - magnification (I use a 10x stereo microscope), a decent ultrasonic cleaner (Allendale in my case), proper fluids (L&R) and a timegrapher. I’ve contemplated picking up one of those knock-off 5700 case openers off Amazon but am unsure if I’d just be chucking away my money. In this game the correct tools are everything. I bought a case opener recently. Makes life so much more easy. I think it came via Cousins. They done a cheap arse Chinese one too but since they decided to kill off the world with a virus I don't buy from China now if I can help it! Plus the cheap one looked like it was 3D printed. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 1:42:20 GMT -8
Thank you Tony. Highly informative and frankly a fun / funny read, too !
I have done so many train side restos (I am a parts swapper only) and dial side fixes but never a complete down to pieces rebuild. I am getting up the courage to do it - this is really timely for me.
I see you guys doing these teardowns and I just want to get it going !
Hardest repair to learn is hairsprings. A lot of folk who repair watches don't have a clue when it comes to this. This is the reason for positional errors and stoppers.
My advice is this if starting off inside the movement. Take the balance cock off with the balance wheel and hairspring intact. Clean them in Essence of Vagina. Dry them and then put it to one side. Don't remove the hairspring or balance wheel from the balance cock. Well not until you are happy you won't f-them up.
Also something I forgot to mention is get a demagnetizer. 90% of watch errors I deal with are where the watch has become magnetized. You can buy a cheap arse blue "chinese spit spit" one from ebay for peanuts.
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tritto
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Post by tritto on Feb 6, 2021 2:04:20 GMT -8
Essence of vagina, Tony. That's a new one to me. Where can I order some? 😆
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Feb 6, 2021 2:56:58 GMT -8
I keep it in the bathroom cabinet next to Essence of Viagra. Both are well past their Use By Date.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 5:26:21 GMT -8
Essence of renata.... oops bad habit got into calling it that
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Post by sundog on Feb 6, 2021 8:16:19 GMT -8
Essence of renata.... oops bad habit got into calling it that  |
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 6, 2021 13:27:27 GMT -8
I’d also add that it can be just as much as a rabbit hole as watches. I now spend almost as much time looking at and bidding on tools as I do at watches.
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Post by bklake on Feb 7, 2021 9:02:27 GMT -8
I would add: Start with the simple things. Change a strap without leaving a scratch. Learn your tools and tune/modify them to do this.
Open a case back without gouging it. Sounds easy, doesn't it? Screw back and snap back. Learn your tools, tune and modify them to work without damage.
Clean a case. Learn what you can do without damaging it or ruining the lines.
Start with the big stuff and work your way done to the tiny stuff.
If parts are plentiful, jump into the deep end and flail away. Where parts are scarce, proceed with more caution.
The biggest leap ahead for me was tuning my screwdrivers and tweezers. These two tools are involved with probably 80% of the work.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 2:47:01 GMT -8
If you don't want to scratch the case just put tape over it before working on it. Also buy some Bergeon Rodico. This helps remove dust that may land on the movement and it is a must when removing little jewel caps and springs that have the ability to jump into a wormhole and vanish forever! I am still hunting for a spring for my King Seiko that went for trip across the universe two days ago. Unobtainium!
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Post by bklake on Feb 8, 2021 3:46:29 GMT -8
If you don't want to scratch the case just put tape over it before working on it. Also buy some Bergeon Rodico. This helps remove dust that may land on the movement and it is a must when removing little jewel caps and springs that have the ability to jump into a wormhole and vanish forever! I am still hunting for a spring for my King Seiko that went for trip across the universe two days ago. Unobtainium! It is sitting at the Galaxy bar having a beer with the Diashock jewel cap I launched a last year. Laughing at us. |
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 8, 2021 6:16:20 GMT -8
If you don't want to scratch the case just put tape over it before working on it. Also buy some Bergeon Rodico. This helps remove dust that may land on the movement and it is a must when removing little jewel caps and springs that have the ability to jump into a wormhole and vanish forever! I am still hunting for a spring for my King Seiko that went for trip across the universe two days ago. Unobtainium! It is sitting at the Galaxy bar having a beer with the Diashock jewel cap I launched a last year. Laughing at us. Strangely for me the wormhole opened in reverse last night. I have been tinkering Friday/Saturday/Sunday at the kitchen table. Last night I got the broom out to sweep the kitchen floor after I finished and out from under the table came a mainspring click. I have double checked and all three watches I worked on this weekend have their clicks in place... Now I should add that having a dog I sweep the kitchen every day. Sometimes more than once. I love my dog, but I'm considering having her varnished. So where this click appeared from on Sunday I just don't know! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 10:08:11 GMT -8
Today one minute my 5625 movement had the second setting spring attached. The next minute "zap" down the wormhole. I blame CERN and the LHC. Especially as I ended up ordering a new one from the land of CERN at a huge cost of 3 Euro's! Plus 20 Euro's shipping! For a spring the size of a mouses dildo! They must be sending it with a spare King Seiko at that money.
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 9, 2021 4:12:29 GMT -8
Today one minute my 5625 movement had the second setting spring attached. The next minute "zap" down the wormhole. I blame CERN and the LHC. Especially as I ended up ordering a new one from the land of CERN at a huge cost of 3 Euro's! Plus 20 Euro's shipping! For a spring the size of a mouses dildo! They must be sending it with a spare King Seiko at that money. I don’t know whether I’m more surprised at the shipping cost or that you don’t have a spare knocking about Tony! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 5:20:37 GMT -8
I have a spare 5606 movement from a LM. Which is handy as I needed to rob the spring barrel cap from it today for the same watch. Someone had bent the original cap so it was running on that not the pivot surface. I looked for the little spring already.... M.I.A
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Feb 9, 2021 13:08:57 GMT -8
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