Vintage Seiko World Time - Collectors / Owners

[dapellegrini]

Hi all -

I was recently gifted my father's Seiko World Time, circa Dec 1971, reference 6117-6409 w/ white dial.  I really like this watch, and have added a couple more in the last few months - a 1964 black dial 6217-7000 and a 1976 black dial 6117-6400.

While researching this watch and browsing "for sale" listings (past and present), I found there is a very large range of models, dials and bezels in this line - including many originals, but also many frankensteins / parts bin specials / aftermarket hacks.  Par for the course with a 50 year old watch.

To try and organize my findings, I have started a Google Doc to break down each major generation, reference number and version of this watch, including OEM dial and bezel options.  I am hoping this will be helpful to others that are interested these Seiko world timers from the 60's and 70's.  This is all for educational purposes and posterity's sake. I'm collecting photos and snippets from google/ebay or wherever else I can find them.  The goal is to be as complete and accurate as possible. 

I am posting here, because I found the two most helpful threads (via google) on this website - one for the 6217 and another for the 6117.

THE ASK
***********************

To any of you out there who are familiar with these watches - if you could read through the Google Doc linked here - and send feedback/corrections/more info/suggestions back to me - either in this thread or via PM.  I will keep the document as accurate and up to date as possible. 


docs.google.com/document/d/1vg2mCkolJnnWWmPz4NQMn7Raiaoy2lNccZVpW_qSlV8/edit?usp=sharing




UPDATE: this document has started to transform into a website, here:

seikoworldtime.com/

[pip]

What an excellent reference document, thanks for sharing it with the WS community.

[inboost]

Hi there dapellegrini, nice work on that document so far! I've got a late model (1971 vintage) apart and waiting jewels at the moment. If you're up for a long read and many photos check it out here:  1971 World Timer Service and within you'll find another link to one Fergus has done. If you'd like me to report on anything let me know!

Inboost

[dapellegrini]

Thanks - I'm up to 24 pages now on the document.  At some point soon I will try and set the headings, sub headings etc all properly for proper indexing and create a table of contents.

I've added in some ads/catalog pages with some rough translations from Google Translate, and broken out the bracelets to a separate sub-heading on each model.

I will read through your thread on your 6117-6409 - it looks a lot like mine! It looks full of information.  I just had mine serviced by Ashton Tracey (aka the Seikologist) in Canada.  He did the jewel / barrel upgrade, full overhaul and new crystal.  

[inboost]

I very much admire your commitment to making such a detailed document and I'm looking forward to seeing it completed. If there's any way I can help I would certainly be happy to contribute, but I'm certainly no expert on these watches only just coming to them recently. Ashton's been very helpful to me and others on this forum, and has even commented in that thread of mine.

[dapellegrini]

inboost - Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.

I read through your whole 6117-6409 thread (so far) - I don't have steady enough hands for such small work - but admire your thoroughness and extensive documentation of the whole process. I've added a link to your thread into my document for posterity sake.  It's also cool to see Ashton on this board - I was not aware he was hanging out with you guys. While I am tempted to tinker, I think I will stick with collecting for now - and having a more steady-handed and experienced person clean mine up

Everyone: 

I have enabled "suggested edits" and comments in the Google Doc, and posted a similar thread on WUS to cast a broader net.  Are there any other good places to find and solicit assistance from Seiko collectors, and more broadly share what I have gathered so far?

I'm at the point now, where I have documented everything I know (or think I know) so far - more research needed to complete various sections of the document.  As I built in the structure, my ambitions grew a bit to include new sections for replacement parts and servicing, as well as common aftermarket and/or incorrect parts or combinations of parts.

I have also organized my questions / unresolved issues for each generation of the watch in sections near the end of each Gen, "Notes and unresolved items".  The whole document is a lot to take in - if you want to just be of quick help - jump to those sections - and if you have any more information to share - please add it as a comment in the doc - or here in this thread.

[HiBeat]

Long ago sold off my gold cased 6117-640X World Time.

Now I have the silver dial on the left with the 350W06AN crystal for increased city reading legibility (I personally found the fitment and spread the word this mod could be done many many years ago) , and the unique orange accented dial on the right.

In your document you ask if the organge accented is OEM or aftermarket - I would be shocked if not OEM. I have found another like it in an old post on a Phillipino web site from decades ago to match, plus the details are exact and show no signs of anything re-dial or AM.  If it's not OEM I'll be a monkey's uncle.

I once bought an NOS case from a guy with a stash of 6117-6400/-6409 NOS OEM genuine cases and it was brushed on top in the pattern that clearly emulated OEM Seiko and his entire set was the same so that convinced me that one would buy up used cases, brush them the same, put them away for years to resurface.  That in fact is the case on my white linen dial on the left.  I still have the oringal case it came on that was polished on top or else it got worn away over the years.   Anyway, the mystery of 'did they really offer brushed cases?' has been around for years and I vouch they are real.  Maybe only on service cases but clearly OEM.

Both are on proper bracelets - no easy feat !

[dapellegrini]

Excellent!  I have the white with orange 24-hour ring noted as potentially and aftermarket dial, along with a few other dial combo colors on the 6117 640X generation.  Curious if you know with certainty that is an original dial?  I've been through all of the catalog and ad scans, and that is one I have never seen in an official publication (yet) - and my curiosity is peaked!

[HiBeat]

Aug 15, 2021 18:18:47 GMT -8 dapellegrini said:

Excellent!  I have the white with orange 24-hour ring noted as potentially and aftermarket dial, along with a few other dial combo colors on the 6117 640X generation.  Curious if you know with certainty that is an original dial?  I've been through all of the catalog and ad scans, and that is one I have never seen in an official publication (yet) - and my curiosity is peaked!

Yes, to that point about the cities ring - the red is replaced with orange to match - someone tell me how a redial or AM dial guy produced that !

[dapellegrini]

Also, here is the start of my collection:

[dapellegrini]

RE: the orange ringed dial - I've only ever stumbled on two online.  Both seemed odd / one-off to me.

This one:

www.mywatchmart.com/listing/295325-rare-vintage-seiko-6117-6400-world-time-white-blue-dial/

And this one:

www.watchuseek.com/threads/sold-seiko-vintage-world-time-6117-6400-vg-condition.5261500/

Curious if that one that sold on WUS is your serial number, or another example of it? [edit] NOTE: the one that sold on WUS has an incorrect case back from a 6119-6400 (should be 6117-6400) and an odd green luminous spot to the left of the date window.  You said you case swapped anyways - but I guess I am curious if that is the same watch.

Really appreciate your feedback.  Not saying I don't believe you, just want to qualify any information before I document it.

[dapellegrini]

HiBeat - it sounds like you have done quite a lot of research as well on these.  Thank you for your feedback.

Also of interesting note RE: Brushed vs Polished...

That white dial link with black bezel looks like it has a brushed case - and the serial suggests its either Dec 1968 (I think that is too early) or Dec 1978 (I thought that was too late)...  maybe a NOS case made for servicing after the run stopped around 1976?  Or perhaps I have the end date all wrong on the 6117-640X.  Perhaps at the end of the 70's we saw some of these more odd/rare color combos? 

Still tons to sort through with each version of this watch.  The only base-line I have right now is that I know for a fact my white dial 6117-6409 was bought new by my father in the 1970's, and is all original.  It was just serviced for the first time a month ago by Ashton Tracey.  It's hard to find others who have a direct connection to an all original watch to confirm nothing has happened to in the 50 years that interceded.  

[dapellegrini]

Another thought RE: brushed vs polished. 

I wonder if another Seiko model of the era shared the same case, but had the brushed finishing.  For instance the 6117-800X had the same case (to my eyes) and appears to have been factory brush finished.

For instance, here:

www.watchuseek.com/threads/fs-seiko-6117-8009-navigator-amazing-condition-and-rare.5197461/

And here:

www.ebay.com/itm/303792700844

[Fergus]

The 8000 does not have the same case.

The first 2 digits of the after 4 dictate the case style/shape.

[Fergus]

Another brochure pic for your web

[dapellegrini]

Aug 15, 2021 22:04:21 GMT -8 Fergus said:

The 8000 does not have the same case.

The first 2 digits of the after 4 dictate the case style/shape.

Thanks for this donj - do you mean the 80 in 6117-8000 indicates the case?

I don't currently have a second or third gen watch (on the hunt) in this series, but perhaps they don't follow this rule?  for example, the 6217-7000 became the 6217-7010 with a new case.  Then it became the 6117-6010 - keeping the same case (I believe).

That case on the 800X looks very similar - [EDIT] but the area around the crown does look different.  The other model that I am sure shares the case is the 6117-641X - which does follow your above stated case number rule, 64 in this case.

I will add your cool catalog shot later today.

[dapellegrini]

Aug 15, 2021 18:30:17 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

Aug 15, 2021 18:18:47 GMT -8 dapellegrini said:

Excellent!  I have the white with orange 24-hour ring noted as potentially and aftermarket dial, along with a few other dial combo colors on the 6117 640X generation.  Curious if you know with certainty that is an original dial?  I've been through all of the catalog and ad scans, and that is one I have never seen in an official publication (yet) - and my curiosity is peaked!

Yes, to that point about the cities ring - the red is replaced with orange to match - someone tell me how a redial or AM dial guy produced that !

HiBeat - I have read that the O in SEIKO on many aftermarket dials is more perfect circle - where on the original dials it is more oval like an egg on its side.  There are many aftermarket dials that look quite good.  From your photo, I am pretty sure the Orange dial is an AM dial with the circular O - vs the standard white dial at left where you can see the more oval O.  [EDIT] You can also see where the E in WORLD TIME is placed under the SEIKO in the original VS aftermarket changes a bit

The lume application appears more round than rectangular, and that greenish mismatch lume marker by the date window does not look right.  

Also, I think it is a trick on the eyes having the bezel right next to the orange makes the more red text on the bezel appear orange.  I pulled your photo into photoshop - and the orange 24 hour ring color does not match the bezel color - again might just be the photo - but I am pretty sure this is an AM dial.  Still very cool, just likely not original.

[dapellegrini]

Several of you look to be highly involved in the technical bits on these watches - curious if you can provide accurate OEM and compatible part numbers by applicable generation? 

So far I just have the Crystal P/N noted for the 6117-640X, and skimmed an ETA mainspring P/N from inboost's thread(GR25341X).  Would that same mainspring work for all 6117A/B movements? Are there other commonly replaced parts?

[Fergus]

Sorry it’s the first 3 digits of the second series of 4 that dictates the case shape.

The 8000 does not have a rotating bezel so the crown tube is smaller and yes their case shapes also differ.

[dapellegrini]

Aug 16, 2021 12:00:57 GMT -8 Fergus said:

Sorry it’s the first 3 digits of the second series of 4 that dictates the case shape.

The 8000 does not have a rotating bezel so the crown tube is smaller and yes their case shapes also differ.

Ah - ok.  That would work with the 6217-7000 changing to the 6217-7010, but not the 6217-7010 to 6117-601X - where those two (I believe) both share the same case, but one is 701 and the next is 601.  It is entirely possible those two do NOT infact share the same case - but that would be (welcome) news to me.