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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 27, 2022 9:21:47 GMT -8
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scubarob99
Moderator
Just bought a 6309-7049...this is the last one, I promise.
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Post by scubarob99 on Jan 27, 2022 11:59:19 GMT -8
Squinting my eyes a bit it does look like you have a 5000 and a 5009. That would explain the different dial frames and bracelets and give me a nice new piece of information to prove out. If these are both original setups, then: - The NA market 5009 had a B487 bracelet and the gray dial frame is the white background color behind the functions (LIGHT, MODE, etc) - The Intl market 5000 had a XAS110L bracelet and the gray dial frame is the darker gray background color behind the functions (LIGHT, MODE, etc) You are right on, never saw the difference between the two, thought it was just market designation and aging of the dial frame. Rob PS. The white one looks and feels to be the higher end of the two, visually and over all feel in hand at the AD in Osaka in 1979   |
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 27, 2022 12:13:25 GMT -8
Excellent - thank you!
So is it the 5009 that feels more sturdy? It appears that the 5000 was perhaps only made in SS, while the 5009 was made in SS and SGP (gold plated) - with the B487 bracelet appearing in both finishes (SS and SGP) on the 5009.
If I have the order right, I think your 5009 has a "A358-500B T" dial frame code, while the 5000 has a "A358-500C T" dial frame code...
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 28, 2022 13:56:15 GMT -8
A little bit of fun for the weekend.... Did Seiko license the A239 tech to these other manufacturers, did they license it FROM someone else - or are these just blatant copies perhaps put out many years after the A239? seikoworldtime.com/articles/A239-50XX-Counterfeits |
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 29, 2022 16:00:26 GMT -8
Ok, a few new things on the A239's (those are the ones with the dual LCDs). So far I have the following two: An A239-502A - Blue Dial Frame - Wording on inside battery hatch in japanese - J on exposed Chip when you open the case back - Japan A on the exterior of the case back - Case back gasket recessed in a channel in the case back - Map LCD is green I believe - now that I am seeing another that is definitely black. The green is very subtle, or I'm wrong and this is also black... but I think it's green for now  And an A239-5009 - Black Dial Frame - Wording in English on the inside of the battery hatch - K on exposed chip when you open the case back - Japan A on the interior of the case back (not the exterior) - The case back gasket is completely different on a separate metal ring that sits around the movement/module - Map LCD is definitely black   The 5009 was received not working - some tear down, clean up and a new (correct) battery has it running again. I would have guessed that the 5009 and the 502A were both for North America, but unless someone swapped my battery hatch on the 502A (completely possible) and the bracelet (less likely) - Perhaps the 502A is in fact for JDM / Intl. Its not that the map is "green" on the 502A, more that the whole LCD module is more greenish vs the 5009 that is gray/black:  The new 5009 (black):  The one I posted previously (502A):  |
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 2, 2022 16:21:04 GMT -8
And now there is a correct John Cleese in the collection (though unfortunately with the wrong bracelet)  At left the A718-5010 SPORTS 100 (also not on correct bracelet), and at right the A718-5030 "John Cleese". I have a hunch finding the original bracelets will be a life long quest. |
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 2, 2022 16:48:09 GMT -8
I also received two A358's this week - which have been deconstructed, cleaned and are awaiting parts. I haven't tested the modules yet - so that'll be a surprise once reassembled. Right now awaiting C/E clips for the buttons, gaskets, new crystals (and perhaps crystal gaskets), and another scrap watch for some additional parts. Here are the two A358's deconstructed (also awaiting more of these watch trays so they don't have to share)  I was able to pop the crystal out of one successfully - the other didn't make it:   The case on the A358 is awkward - the crystal is not centered in it, and the speaker mount gets in the way of the press... Also, it seems to me that the original crystals are actual "glass" - probably why polyfix was getting me nowhere. The replacement crystal I got for the A239 might be plastic - it doesn't have the same ring/feel as the original. In fact here is one of the A239's get its crystal replaced:     On the left here w/ new crystal (right still has original crystal)  |
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scubarob99
Moderator
Just bought a 6309-7049...this is the last one, I promise.
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Post by scubarob99 on Feb 3, 2022 5:32:22 GMT -8
Glad they arrived in one piece, and getting the treatment they deserve.
Both modules should be fine. One worked as recently as last week.
Rob
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inboost
WS Benefactor
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Post by inboost on Feb 3, 2022 7:42:49 GMT -8
dapellegrini - Looking good! I'm enjoying the photos and the commentary. On note on the 'exposed chip' marking (J vs K) - It's industry standard to have date codes on integrated circuits even to this day. In fact, it's more important than the actual part number. When ICs get so small that only a letter/number or two might fit it's only date code that is applied. Those two being in close alphabetical order may suggest those two modules came off the production line near a month or year of manufacture change for the IC. You;ll have to review the serial numbers to see if this jives.
Out of curiosity, did any of the dial frames have year/month of manufacture ink stamped on the back of them like the analog movements have?
Inboost
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 3, 2022 8:18:28 GMT -8
Glad they arrived in one piece, and getting the treatment they deserve. Both modules should be fine. One worked as recently as last week. Rob Thank you again. They arrived quickly and in good shape. The bracelets got a long bath in the U/S machine, the cases a fine detailing under loupe.... Hoping to have these back up in running soon! |
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 3, 2022 8:22:03 GMT -8
dapellegrini - Looking good! I'm enjoying the photos and the commentary. On note on the 'exposed chip' marking (J vs K) - It's industry standard to have date codes on integrated circuits even to this day. In fact, it's more important than the actual part number. When ICs get so small that only a letter/number or two might fit it's only date code that is applied. Those two being in close alphabetical order may suggest those two modules came off the production line near a month or year of manufacture change for the IC. You;ll have to review the serial numbers to see if this jives.
Out of curiosity, did any of the dial frames have year/month of manufacture ink stamped on the back of them like the analog movements have?
Inboost
Interesting. No stamps or markings on the back of the 5 dial frames I have seen the back side of. These two A239's have slightly different cases, and different case codes to match, A239- 502A and A239- 5009. In hand it is obvious the grills on the front are different, the case back gasket arrangement is also different. So I guess it makes sense that perhaps the modules are also slightly different (aside from just the map LCD color). |
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 11, 2022 21:55:34 GMT -8
On another thread some excellent Seiko document pages were shared with me that show how to deconstruct crystal and rubber gasket codes. I am still looking for the complete document, but using those bits, I have built this page: seikoworldtime.com/articles/seiko_codes_and_part_numbersPaste in a valid Seiko Crystal or Gasket Part Number and you should get a pretty great break down of the inner diameter thickness, shape, cross section shape, etc. Let me know if you see anything in accurate. FWIW, I find many gasket numbers on Jules Borel are 8-digit numbers, whereas correct seiko gasket codes are alpha-numeric and 9-digits long. I am guessing those 8-digit numbers are JB's aftermarket codes, but they aren't helpful in this specific use case. |
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inboost
WS Benefactor
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Post by inboost on Feb 12, 2022 7:15:22 GMT -8
I have a set of casing guides and such coming in shortly - I'll dig through them and see if any of this dhows up in them. I'm not certain they will as I have a 1970 Casing Guide and a 1972 Watch Part Interchangeability Guide and neither have much to offer in generic part decode like what you've found. It is really handy stuff!
Inboost
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 14, 2022 16:08:33 GMT -8
As far as I can tell the A239 came in 5 model numbers, as follows: WORLD TIMER ALARM cases: - A239-5000 - in SS (black map) and SGP (red map) - A239-5009 - in SS (black map) and SGP (red map) - A239-5010 - in SS w/ black or green map WORLD TIME cases: - A239-5020 - in SS (black map) and SGP (red map) - A239-502A - in SS with w/ black or green map That's at least 3 SGP versions, 5 SS versions with black maps and 2 SS versions with green maps. That's at least 10 variations if you were trying to collect them all. For me, I will tap out once I have one of each major model number. I just received this SGP A239-5000 a few minutes ago:  Another 5020 SS in the mail, though will be DOA and not sure about its prospects just yet.... |
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 14, 2022 16:18:34 GMT -8
And moments later via different carrier... Parts day! Its like xmas in February   |
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inboost
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Post by inboost on Feb 15, 2022 18:34:10 GMT -8
And moments later via different carrier... Parts day! Its like xmas in February Congrats on the parts and the watch! I'm excited to hear feedback on the crystal and seal for the M158s as I'm due to do two now (say that ten time fast  )
Inboost
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 15, 2022 18:41:10 GMT -8
Thx. I forgot to include photos of the extensive set of gaskets and misc other pieces that have also arrived. I am going to need a better storage solution in the longer term... Unfortunately I've had to file a lost package inquiry - my M158 from Japan seems to have disappeared in the mail. I'm hoping its just covid delays. It has been more than 3 weeks since it was mailed out via EMS and has not moved.  Another package, shipped last week (also from Japan via EMS) made it to the USPS in less than 5 days, and I hope to have those this week. I will try and remember to take lots of photos as I rebuild each of these. |
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inboost
WS Benefactor
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Posts: 4,869
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Post by inboost on Feb 16, 2022 11:08:28 GMT -8
dapellegrini - I've had a package show up two days ago that was ordered from India on November 7th 2021! The tracking on it went cold and the ebay auction did too (I actually forgot about it for awhile). It was 99 days in transit, but it did eventually make it. Fingers crossed!
Inboost
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Post by evilundertone on Feb 21, 2022 18:28:19 GMT -8
I bought mine NOS a few years ago boxed for £150 I think it was. The good ol' days!  |
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 21, 2022 18:29:25 GMT -8
Wow - thank looks good.
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Another package, shipped last week (also from Japan via EMS) made it to the USPS in less than 5 days, and I hope to have those this week.