Tuna project 2.0

[bklake]

I kind of stepped on the other Tuna build thread and thought it would be better to continue in my own thread.  To recap, I have early Sharkey versions of the Tuna and 6105 homage.  I am one of the few that like the shark on the dial.  I also got a bronze 6105 case in a multi party swap.  I purchased titanium cases from Aliexpress during the 11/11 sale.

The titanium Tuna and 6105 cases arrived. Complete Tuna, SS version 120g. Ti version 91g. Swapped everything over including the strap. A little over an ounce saved. Doesn't seem like much but I've been wearing it for a few days and it is very comfortable. When it was SS, I never wore it more than a day because it started to bother me. Still just as bulky, but light as a feather on my wrist.Totally worth it. 

The bronze 6105 project is stalled until I can get a stem adapter. The new 6309 stem is definitely tap 9 and crown is tap 10. I don't know of a source for tap 10 6309 stems. I also need to service the movement because it doesn't run now.  This watch will be a collection of various misfit vintage parts in a modern case. Both the Tuna and 6105 SS cases will not go to waste and may end up with quartz movements. The Ti 6105 may end up as a hi-beat. Stay tuned.

It would seem that I also purchased a 6309 style Ti case awhile ago.  When I went to put all these new parts in my project drawer, I saw the 6309 case sitting there.  Totally forgot about it, I must be getting old.  The Sharkeys are easy parts swaps, the 6309 style is a new build and may take longer to collect the parts. 

Pictures soon. 

[inboost]

I'm looking forward to seeing this project build out bklake! I'm also pretty keen on understanding how something 'ends up' as a High-Beat? I've never serviced one before so I have no reference point. Did you mean you're considering a movement that ia already high-beat for the build, or would you be converting a standard amplitude movement to high beat?

If a conversion (can it be done?) - Is this a simple swap of escape wheel and pallet fork to change the angles and duration of contact and thus produce the higher beat frequency? Does the balance have to change too? Will it's amplitude have to be reduced to make it's period of oscillation faster?

Enquiring minds want to know

[HiBeat]

Awesome projects all around !   You know I love to mod with bronze cases, titanium cases, RDHC mods (real dial, homage case), the whole bit.

There is always the conundrum of "true 4 o'clock crown" case designs and the modern NH35/NH36/4R3X/7S2X/7S36 movements that are "3:18 crown" designs.    Some Asian clones use a custom date wheel and then a true 4 o'clock crown, no modern Seiko movement lines up without their wheel.   I have a 6105 case with the true 4:00 crown, so I solved that with a 6119 movement, works a treat.  Could have gone 7546 but did not end up going that way.

I'd love to know more about how you fit in a quartz movement, aside from using a 7546 or Y513 in a true 4 o'clock case, both of which I have done with 6105 and 6309 divers.

Ben, I have a few shark logo dials they are yours free if you pay shipping. I know I'll never use them myself.

[bklake]

The hi-beat will be via a PT5000 movement. I noticed some of the usual suspects fit that movement now. Probably due to short supply of NH movements. I found a casing ring on aliexpress with the outside dimensions of the case and the inside dimentions of the ETA clone. Total height is not the same and I need to figure out how they are doing that. A casing spring seems like an easy way to do it.

Dial foot location is easy when you have a dial foot tool. Glue on, not solder. I have repaired feet but have not located new feet. Seems easy until you try it.

I need to find my password for image account so I can link pictures.

[bklake]

The quartz will be via a Ronda 515. If the PT5000 works out, the Ronda is mostly the same. They have a 10 year battery version that seems like the perfect movement for a hydo mod.

The pit I'm digging just gets deeper and deeper.

[inboost]

Dec 14, 2021 11:22:58 GMT -8 bklake said:

The pit I'm digging just gets deeper and deeper.

Isn't that the truth! Looking forward to those pictures for sure!

[bklake]

The Ti 6105 is going to take some time.  The original dial is 29mm and the Ti case is made for a 28.5mm dial.  The movement won't just drop in.  I did put all the parts on the scale and it is about 28g lighter than SS. 

[inboost]

Arrrgh! 0.5mm!? That's 0.010" off the radius or about three sheets of paper. How do you go about resolving that? Grind down the dial or increased the case?

[bklake]

New dial.  I have to take it off either way.  May as well change things up a little.  I have a dial with 3 sets of feet.  I need to make sure one set is 4:20 to match the stem position.  Lume on that dial is unknown.  The original dial is first generation, purchased using an agent, before these were available on ailexpress.  The lume isn't that great but it is decent.

[bklake]

Dec 19, 2021 6:01:01 GMT -8 inboost said:

Arrrgh! 0.5mm!? That's 0.010" off the radius or about three sheets of paper. How do you go about resolving that? Grind down the dial or increased the case?

In the little bit of metal work I've done, I've learned that .1mm or .005 inch may as well be a mile when it comes to fit. 

I bought a mini mill and lathe 15 years ago.  I can make one part fit another (sometimes) but not make two parts that fit together.  There is a lot of art and science in that trade.  Any craftsman that does this for a living has my respect. 

I learned the hard way that you always modify the cheapest and/or most available part.  In this case, the dial would get modified if I go that direction. 

[inboost]

bklake - You've got it all 100% correct! It's also amazing how fast hours of work can disappear on a lathe when something isn't quite right and the tool digs in and vaporizes the part.

[bklake]

6105 is done.  91grams all up.  The weight change isn't as dramatic as the Tuna but noticeable.  I have to say, I wore the Tuna for 2 weeks straight and it never bothered me.  One day max when it was in SS form. 

Forgive me if I don't post a good picture.  I had to use a dial from aliexpress that has a Seiko logo.  It was the only way to get a dial with feet in the correct location.  I hang my head shame but it was the only way.  I learned that the dial feet for a 4:20 case are right next to the Date window and it would be basically impossible to use my dial foot tool to glue on a new foot.  If I had a foot soldering machine...

Waiting for the last parts for my Ti 6309ish case and I will post a family picture. 

[bklake]

Curious that both watches ended up the same weight.  Different rubber straps on them.  The Tuna bounces between 91-92g so I guess it is a fraction heavier. 

[bklake]

Kind of stalled out waiting for some parts from Aliexpress.  They are currently on a row boat from China. 

Here is where I stand as of now:

On the left we have the titanium Tuna.  Straight forward swap of parts.  I'm a little annoyed with the bezel action.  It rubs the shroud.  Slowly sanding down the inside of the shroud to give it more clearance. 

In the middle is the 6105 Homage.  I feel dirty because I used a fake logo dial.  It was the only way to get a dial with feet in the correct position.  I have a glue on dial foot tool so it shouldn't be a problem.  However, for the 4:20 dial, the foot is right next to the date window and the glue on feet won't work.  Soldering is the only way to fit a foot and I'm not set up to solder.  The original dial is 29mm and the Ti case needs a 28.5mm dial further forcing the fake dial. 

So that leaves us the watch on the right.  What you can's see is that it is quartz.  SS case from the swap and a few parts I had sitting around.  I had some old ETA dials sitting around from an abandoned project plus some other parts.  I purchased an assortment of hands.  It is a Ronda 515 movement.  There is a brass spacer that has an outside dimension of the case and inside 11.5'''.  I saw some Chinese watches that were clearly designed for the NH3x movement but now use clone ETA movements.  There had to be a simple way.  The Ronda uses standard ETA 2824 dial foot position and stem height.  Dial+movement+ring+stem all aligned.  I did have to clip the feet and use dial dots.  I will go back and correct that with proper feet but I want a better dial.  I had to add an O-ring to take up the 1mm gap between caseback and spacer.  A better solution would be a wavy spring.  I have some 6309 springs but they are not the right diameter and I didn't want to trash one making it fit.  I've seen casing springs on Aliexpress but they don't give dimensions.  I suspect that is what the Chinese watches with ETA clones are using.

Waiting in the wings is a Ti 6309.  Once the parts arrive, I will update. 

[HiBeat]

Sweet work there Ben.  For the true 4 o'clock conundrum I used an old 6309 hiding the day wheel and it came out great too.   Dial dots never fail me.   I guess the homage companies print up their own date wheels.

Always love to see your work keep 'em coming !

[bklake]

On these, the crown is past 4:00.  One or two minute marks past 4.  A real Seiko dial would not line up.  The dial I used had 3 sets of feet.  3. 3:18 and 4:20.  4:20 is what they call it.  Nothing at true 4:00. 

Nothing lined up with the Ronda movement.  The no date window dial was perfect for this one. 

[HiBeat]

Feb 17, 2022 12:14:52 GMT -8 bklake said:

On these, the crown is past 4:00.  One or two minute marks past 4.  A real Seiko dial would not line up.  The dial I used had 3 sets of feet.  3. 3:18 and 4:20.  4:20 is what they call it.  Nothing at true 4:00. 

Nothing lined up with the Ronda movement.  The no date window dial was perfect for this one. 

Gotcha.  I thought you had a cheapie homage with the exact 4:00 crown, my bad.

The new SLA049 and SRP Land Tortoises are using the new 4:21 crown location, FWIW.  Presumably to allow the same date wheel as always but move it below the 3:18 spot.   

[bklake]

Feb 17, 2022 14:09:08 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

Feb 17, 2022 12:14:52 GMT -8 bklake said:

On these, the crown is past 4:00.  One or two minute marks past 4.  A real Seiko dial would not line up.  The dial I used had 3 sets of feet.  3. 3:18 and 4:20.  4:20 is what they call it.  Nothing at true 4:00. 

Nothing lined up with the Ronda movement.  The no date window dial was perfect for this one. 

Gotcha.  I thought you had a cheapie homage with the exact 4:00 crown, my bad.

The new SLA049 and SRP Land Tortoises are using the new 4:21 crown location, FWIW.  Presumably to allow the same date wheel as always but move it below the 3:18 spot.   

Thanks for the tip.  I will keep an eye out for a proper Seiko dial that I like.

I don't like doing math in public but I suspect the degrees of rotation for 3, 3:18 and 4:20 are all a number that allows the date to line up the same. 

[HiBeat]

Here's what I came up with, updated to include the Land Tortoise and SLA049/051, etc.

[peterr]

i had the same problem recently, with a mop dial, i bought two 28mm washers,
and 2 small c-clamps, and cut some foam rubber to the appropriate size, <28mm,
and made a dial "sandwich" with the dial in the center, washers as the "bread",
and c-clamps holding it all together. i was then able to file it all down with
unidirectional strokes, so as not to shatter the mop structure. it worked 
perfectly, and i got to use the dial that i wanted to. ( this was to file a dial from
29mm down to 28.5, but it would work for any size dial/washer.)