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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 17:10:49 GMT -8
I also have the 1966 model with the Torch caseback. rossr - can you tell me if the dial has lume or not on yours?
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rossr
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Post by rossr on Oct 17, 2023 18:09:54 GMT -8
No lume on my 5717.
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saldog
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Post by saldog on Oct 17, 2023 18:40:50 GMT -8
No lume on mine either. Edit: this is a suspected redial, so don’t read anything into it. -Dave
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 18:54:52 GMT -8
rossr, is it a black dial version? saldog - curious, do you see those square lume plots on your dial without lume in them? Is that also a "64" Olympic torch?
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Oct 17, 2023 19:01:56 GMT -8
rossr , is it a black dial version? saldog - curious, do you see those square lume plots on your dial without lume in them? Is that also a "64" Olympic torch? In the early to mid 1960's Seiko supplied new replacement dials without lume, I'm not sure if it was a cost saving or just that it was easer to store? But you'll find Nos dials on yahoo without lume.
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 19:06:55 GMT -8
Rod - thx! I am intrigued by the 5717 (with date) with lume, AND with round (instead of square) lume plots. They seem very rare, and at first I thought they went on the "64" olympic case backs, but now I have seen a couple black dial "64"'s without lume, so I'm still trying to riddle that one out. There are also at least two early hand sets, one where the inside lume edge is pointy (first image below), the other where it is squared off (the second below):
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saldog
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Post by saldog on Oct 17, 2023 19:10:54 GMT -8
rossr, is it a black dial version? saldog - curious, do you see those square lume plots on your dial without lume in them? Is that also a "64" Olympic torch? They don’t look like lume plots to me, just gray squares. I assume since there’s no lume on the hands that there was none on the dial, but I could be wrong. It’s a Dec ‘66 torch.
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 19:11:44 GMT -8
Here's an example of the 5717 dial with lume, dial code -8970T AD: Edit: and black variant, same dial code:
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 19:15:27 GMT -8
saldog - I've not yet come across another 5717 dial with those square shapes like yours... also intrigued
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rossr
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Post by rossr on Oct 17, 2023 19:18:46 GMT -8
From the first page of this thread.
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 19:20:50 GMT -8
Thanks rossr, not sure how I missed it. Any reason to suspect the case back was a transplant on that one? I would guess not from the photos
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 19:56:03 GMT -8
Of curiosity, there are at least five dial codes on the 5717, but I haven't figured out the differences yet. MADE IN JAPAN | 5717-8990T Not sure where this one belongs yet... white dial only? Short hour markers, black outer minute track JAPAN | 5717-8990TAD Not sure where this one belongs yet... white and black dial variants confirmed Short hour markers, black outer minute track JAPAN 5717 | -8990TAD Not sure where this one belongs yet... white and black dial variants confirmed Short hour markers, black outer minute track JAPAN | 5717-8980TAD White outer bezel version, white version only? Long hour markers, white outer minute track JAPAN 5717 | -8970TAD Possibly the Asian Games Cases, lume version White and Black dial variants confirmed
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 17, 2023 20:19:40 GMT -8
Then on the 45899, we see the following: MADE IN JAPAN 45899T0 This is the earliest dial version, perhaps only made in the first part of March 1964 MADE IN JAPAN 45898T0 This is the more common dial without the extra silver circle on the dial Then perhaps on the non-olympic torch cases we see these 5719 versions: JAPAN 5719-8980TAD Not sure where this one fits? JAPAN5719 -8980TAD Not sure where this one fits? JAPAN 5719 | -8970T AD This is the lumeless (with different hands than the 5717), metal bezel version on the 5719-8980 JAPAN 5719 | -8980T AD This is the lumed, metal bezel version on the 5719-8980
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 18, 2023 18:22:08 GMT -8
Unfortunately a lot of the sales listings online have partially or completely obscured the serials. Here is a small (and growing) dataset I have started: Mono-pusher Image CatalogI find it helpful to gather watches into model groups by date like this to start making sense of the different versions, their timing, etc.
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inboost
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Post by inboost on Oct 19, 2023 7:01:54 GMT -8
So weird that they issue Olympic themed case backs in non Olympic years... Any chance we're talking regional Olympic games that were only domestic in nature?
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 19, 2023 7:26:26 GMT -8
inboost, as far as I can tell all olympic torches issued with a 1966 serials start with "64". There are no 62, 63, 65, 66, etc - and this was only on the 5717 version (with date). I suspect those were made in "46" (June 1964) and not "64" April 1966. There are 1963 serials with the digits in backwards order as well. It is only "obvious" when you see an N3 or D3, but I suspect some of the other Month/Years were also scrambled. Now the Asian Games version still is a head scratcher with "49" and "51" serials.
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rossr
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Post by rossr on Oct 20, 2023 21:54:28 GMT -8
Thanks rossr , not sure how I missed it. Any reason to suspect the case back was a transplant on that one? I would guess not from the photos Zero chance. This watch was bought in Singapore in March 1968 by the person who gave it to me He had previously passed another watch on to me. I suspect that it is more likely a 1966 model; otherwise, as a 1964 model, it would have been hanging around a long time. www.thewatchsite.com/threads/receipt-of-a-seiko-dx-6106-8040.174369/#post-1392921
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Post by dapellegrini on Oct 21, 2023 13:16:56 GMT -8
Thanks rossr! I have a 45899 from May 1964 getting cleaned up right now. Like yours, this one is from original owner. His wife tells me that it was a gift from his father who travelled frequently to Japan, and he received it as a child / pre-teen. She says it was new when he received it in the early 1970's. I suspect his dad got it for a song, as the newer 6139/6138 chronos where out by then. Just anecdotal, but I believe they gave me the history as far as they could remember it, so I suppose it is possible that these 1964 watches were sold into the early 1970's. Also, on the "64" being a backward June 1964 serial... I just checked my world timer dataset, and noted that I only had one with a serial starting with "46". Upon closer inspection that is actually a "45", so I am adjusting that. I also checked my smaller data set of 45899 / 5717 and 5719's and can not find a single watch manufactured in "46" from that set. That doesn't prove anything necessarily, but it is at least an odd coincidence, and reinforces my thinking that these "64" serials are June 1964 productions. Anyway, here are my mono-pushers so far:
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inboost
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Post by inboost on Oct 21, 2023 18:02:41 GMT -8
That is a sweet set of mono pushers for sure, and the story coming with the 45899 makes it quite special. I love a watch with some provenance behind it's history.
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DanS
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Post by DanS on Oct 22, 2023 17:45:04 GMT -8
I wonder what are the dial codes on the "64" examples. That would potentially answer the question definitively.
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