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Post by catkicker on Jan 5, 2014 13:23:00 GMT -8
So here is the question. "What is a Japanese Domestic Market Seiko Watch and how are they identified?"
With all I have read and seen about Seiko JDM watches, it seems that there are a lot of people out there that are confused along with myself. All the guides and reviews and general post on Seiko watches seem to point to the "17 JEWEL" or "21 JEWEL" label on the face of the dial along with dial codes that read: MADE IN JAPAN
Is that all that defines JDM? Does the Daini lightning bolt logo matter? What about date wheel?
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Post by seikoholic on Jan 5, 2014 15:50:59 GMT -8
It's my understanding that in these cases, "JDM" really only applies to the branding / labeling. They're not actually "made in Japan" IIRC. They're Japanese domestic models, destined for sale inside Japan, but not made there. I don't know as much about this as I should.
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Post by catkicker on Jan 5, 2014 16:37:57 GMT -8
So what exactly identifies watch A as a JDM and watch B as something else if they both have Jewel count and code on dial? Does it come down to date wheel be Kanji or Made in Japan stamped on case back. It does not seem to be reflected in the actual ser.# So Here is what sparked my question. My idea of a 6309-7290 JDM is that it had jewel count on dial and made in japan on dial code. I was told nope. Quote from cdgod "The jewel dials are not JDM which is why they always come with Arabic / Farsi / Urdu what have you day wheels. They were shipped to countries with certain laws regarding products must depict country of original hence the made in Japan"
Quote from cobrajet25 "Well said. And absolutely right. This model, like the SKX011J, is not made in Japan, nor sold in Japan. It is meant for markets that require it to be labeled this way due to import laws. And these watches typically have Arabic day wheels, which is a big clue."
So is it as simple as a date wheel that determines what market it is manufactured for?
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cd_god
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Post by cd_god on Jan 5, 2014 16:53:20 GMT -8
You would need a sales catalog from an authorized Seiko dealer from every country and make a spreadsheet of the model numbers and find which models were only sold in Japan.
As to the 17 Jewels thing the model number will have a J at the end SKX007 vs SKX007J.
People wanted the J model because they perceived the quality of Made in Japan to be better than that of the non J model which may have come down the same assembly line.
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Post by catkicker on Jan 5, 2014 17:00:18 GMT -8
So it is about impossible to absolutely say a watch is a JDM except a 6306. I don't see any model number on a watch that says SKX007J. There may have been a hang tag or a sticker on the original box that has SKX007J but the watch say 7S26-0020 So basically I can take any used SKX007 and claim it is a JDM
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 17:20:26 GMT -8
JDM is one of those terms like NOS that has become so bastardized that it is meaningless.
There are watches made outside of Japan that are intended for distribution in Japan. There are watches actually made in Japan intended only for the Japanese market. There are watches made only in Japan intended for distribution outside of Japan.
No SKX007 was ever made in Japan or intended only for the Japanese market.
If someone wants a watch made in Japan and only sold to the Japanese market, there are many. Usually they are mid to top tier pieces though.
This J vs K thing is only there because many countries require honest labeling before the product can be imported. Seiko does the same kind of smoke and mirrors BS that the Swiss and Germans do when they can get away with it surprised-scream-smiley-emoticon
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cd_god
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Post by cd_god on Jan 5, 2014 17:30:10 GMT -8
The 7S26-0020 covers at least the SKX007 and the SKX009 and SKX011.
If I recall the SKX173 and the SKXA35 yellow dial version I wish I would have kept mine) were US models and the SKX009 for the US was called the SKX175 and all use the 7S26-0029 case like the 8110 and 8119 6105 divers watches.
You cannot throw a J dial in a non J SKX007 case because the J casebacks will always say Japan.
I bought my Orange Monster from the Seiko outlet store back in 2003 or whenever and it has a different caseback number and the dial reads Movement Singapore on the bottom so 25 years from now it will be a rare variation.
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Post by igniferroque on Jan 5, 2014 18:56:56 GMT -8
Do the SKX007s that they sell in the Japan Domestic Market have the "Jewels" text on the dial?
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Post by C4L18R3 on Jan 5, 2014 21:19:11 GMT -8
I'm not an expert on the subject but only say this coming from my love of Japanese automobiles - these days JDM is no longer truly JDM. With the way business is done nowadays essentially everything exclusive for the Japan market reaches foreign shores in more ways than one.
So if by JDM you mean that they are intended for sale only in Japan then I would say any watch with a Kanji wheel would be it. The rest is unclear in my opinion. I just read a thread on WUS where this guy buys an SKX007K1 from a Japanese store, it sure confuses the whole J & K discussion. It's more obvious and easier to categorize when things are in limited quantities like the ASEAN market SKX399 or the decades old SpeedTimers (when online where non-existent). But it's hard to say the same of the current crop of mass produced models such as the SKX007.
Having said that the new SARG00x models for me are JDM, maybe because they aren't sold anywhere else (as far as I know). I don't know if they have a Kanji date wheel but I notice most sellers are from Japan. I could be wrong.
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Jan 6, 2014 0:48:34 GMT -8
Some GREAT posts here, boys.
I guess it all depends on how you define "JDM". Personally, I define it as any watch sold or meant for sale in Japan. As someone else said, the dead giveaway for a JDM watch is a Kanji daywheel.
Kanji is not like Spanish or French or any of the other second languages Seiko put into it's watches...it really isn't used anywhere but Japan and the immediate surrounding area. Therefore, there would be no point in putting a Kanji daywheel in any watch OTHER than one meant for sale in Japan. A Kanji daywheel is the defining characteristic of a JDM watch...one that was truly meant for (and sold in) the Japanese Domestic Market.
consequently, I personally use the term "JDM" to describe specific watches, not models or model ranges.
With regard to the age-old "J vs K" debate, on several occasions Forumers have sent letters to Seiko specifically asking what the difference was between an SKX007K and an SKX007J. In every case, Seiko sent the same reply. To paraphrase:
"Both watches are made in the same factory, but the shipping route for each model is different."
That pretty much seals the deal. The 007J is not actually made in Japan, but it is shipped to a country where it is required to be marked that way. It would stand to reason that the 6309-729x which is marked the same way (and the 7002-7001, for that matter) are marked that way for the same reason. Prior to the introduction of the -729 in about 1981-1982, nearly all Seikos were actually made in Japan, so separate labeling provisions for different markets were not an issue. But...
On some higher-end watches that ARE made in Japan, the watch is marked "Made In Japan", just like lesser watches that are NOT made in Japan. Other higher-end watches made in Japan are just marked "Japan". I think Seiko may have muddied this water deliberately.
They must have, as I cannot imagine them making this so confusing by accident!
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