Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 11:01:44 GMT -8
I guess we could confuse the issue by calling these watches by the proper terms...UTC watches UTC was started in 1972. See how that fits in the timeline with the watches. So does that mean that they should have just been called 24 hour movements rather than GMT movements? Maybe a little further clarity is needed. If a watch has all the items needed to tell GMT/UTC offset time then it should be a considered a GMT watch. If a watch movement has a fixed hand then then the movement is not a GMT movement. See the difference ...
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Aug 10, 2014 1:51:24 GMT -8
UTC was started in 1972. See how that fits in the timeline with the watches. So does that mean that they should have just been called 24 hour movements rather than GMT movements? Maybe a little further clarity is needed. If a watch has all the items needed to tell GMT/UTC offset time then it should be a considered a GMT watch. If a watch movement has a fixed hand then then the movement is not a GMT movement. See the difference ... Instead of focusing on the ONE thing a fixed-hand GMT watch can't do, why don't we take a look at what it can do? As an example, here is a '68 6117-6010 I picked up recently. Let's say I am in the Los Angeles timezone, sitting in the lefthand seat of a Boeing 707 at LAX, and it's 8:03 PM (2003 hrs). With a flick of the crown, I line up the red GMT hand with "Los Angeles". Not only can I immediately see that it is 4:03 AM on the 9th at Greenwich , I can INSTANTLY see that it is also... -1:03 AM (0103) on the 9th in Rio de Janeiro -7:03 AM (0703) on the 9th in Moscow -9:33 AM (0933) on the 9th in Calcutta -12:03 PM (1203) on the 9th in Hong Kong -1:03 PM (1303) on the 9th in Tokyo -6:03 PM (1803) on the 8th in Honolulu Now, if I am a Pan Am pilot in 1968, would I rather have an extra settable hour hand (only good for one other timezone, and I gotta figure out AM/PM and the date myself), or ALL THIS information on my wrist? To me, the settable GMT hand can sometimes be kind of a step...backward! Fixed GMT watches aren't as limited as many people think they are. If they are set up right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 8:27:25 GMT -8
So does that mean that they should have just been called 24 hour movements rather than GMT movements? Maybe a little further clarity is needed. If a watch has all the items needed to tell GMT/UTC offset time then it should be a considered a GMT watch. If a watch movement has a fixed hand then then the movement is not a GMT movement. See the difference ... Instead of focusing on the ONE thing a fixed-hand GMT watch can't do, why don't we take a look at what it can do? As an example, here is a '68 6117-6010 I picked up recently. Let's say I am in the Los Angeles timezone, sitting in the lefthand seat of a Boeing 707 at LAX, and it's 8:03 PM (2003 hrs). With a flick of the crown, I line up the red GMT hand with "Los Angeles". Not only can I immediately see that it is 4:03 AM on the 9th at Greenwich , I can INSTANTLY see that it is also... -1:03 AM (0103) on the 9th in Rio de Janeiro -7:03 AM (0703) on the 9th in Moscow -9:33 AM (0933) on the 9th in Calcutta -12:03 PM (1203) on the 9th in Hong Kong -1:03 PM (1303) on the 9th in Tokyo -6:03 PM (1803) on the 8th in Honolulu Now, if I am a Pan Am pilot in 1968, would I rather have an extra settable hour hand (only good for one other timezone, and I gotta figure out AM/PM and the date myself), or ALL THIS information on my wrist? To me, the settable GMT hand can sometimes be kind of a step...backward! Fixed GMT watches aren't as limited as many people think they are. If they are set up right. Even though I agree in this case, it is probably more useful(marginally); we have now stepped away from what the discussion was about...definitions. The problem with this scenario is that all times are relative only to your local time. Pilots; particularly international pilots; may actually find/need to know the offsets from GMT/UTC and not just local time. In that case the adjustable GMT hand, along with the bezel, would provide both local and GMT/UTC offsets. So we come back once again to definitions and the fixed hand is not a true GMT display.
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donciccio
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Post by donciccio on Aug 10, 2014 17:27:50 GMT -8
So does that mean that they should have just been called 24 hour movements rather than GMT movements? Maybe a little further clarity is needed. If a watch has all the items needed to tell GMT/UTC offset time then it should be a considered a GMT watch. If a watch movement has a fixed hand then then the movement is not a GMT movement. See the difference ... Instead of focusing on the ONE thing a fixed-hand GMT watch can't do, why don't we take a look at what it can do? As an example, here is a '68 6117-6010 I picked up recently. Let's say I am in the Los Angeles timezone, sitting in the lefthand seat of a Boeing 707 at LAX, and it's 8:03 PM (2003 hrs). With a flick of the crown, I line up the red GMT hand with "Los Angeles". Not only can I immediately see that it is 4:03 AM on the 9th at Greenwich , I can INSTANTLY see that it is also... -1:03 AM (0103) on the 9th in Rio de Janeiro -7:03 AM (0703) on the 9th in Moscow -9:33 AM (0933) on the 9th in Calcutta -12:03 PM (1203) on the 9th in Hong Kong -1:03 PM (1303) on the 9th in Tokyo -6:03 PM (1803) on the 8th in Honolulu Now, if I am a Pan Am pilot in 1968, would I rather have an extra settable hour hand (only good for one other timezone, and I gotta figure out AM/PM and the date myself), or ALL THIS information on my wrist? To me, the settable GMT hand can sometimes be kind of a step...backward! Fixed GMT watches aren't as limited as many people think they are. If they are set up right.
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Post by Groundhog66 on Aug 10, 2014 17:42:25 GMT -8
I've attempted to move some posts into this thread, I apologize if something got lost in the transfer.
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cd_god
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Post by cd_god on Aug 10, 2014 17:53:49 GMT -8
The Seiko 8F56 has an idependtly adjustable GMT hand and a perpetual calender to boot But quartz is cheating. Jus' sayin' At the ANA show on Thursday 5 dealers had watches in their cases. A few precious metal pocket watches and 3 had Rolexes but one had a Patek Phillipe with a second timezone hour hand and a 24 hour dial at 12. If it had been a swap meet or boot sale I would have asked the price in hopes of a deal but at a show of this calibre I know the seller knew the value of the watch.
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Post by jkchua on Aug 10, 2014 23:07:42 GMT -8
Hi Sirs. I recently got me a 6117 navigator timer. Sadly the bracelet it came with is short so I had to put it on leather. My question about this watch is, is it normal that the date changes when the red gmt hand passes 12 o'clock marker instead of the hour hand? It's really not a big deal for me but just wanted to know if it is normal for this model. Thanks in advance John Attachments:
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Aug 11, 2014 1:03:09 GMT -8
Hi Sirs. I recently got me a 6117 navigator timer. Sadly the bracelet it came with is short so I had to put it on leather. My question about this watch is, is it normal that the date changes when the red gmt hand passes 12 o'clock marker instead of the hour hand? It's really not a big deal for me but just wanted to know if it is normal for this model. Thanks in advance John A lot of times when these are serviced the watchmaker does not put the hands back on in the right place. You have to have all the hands coordinated, or the watch is pretty much useless for anything but the time. At midnight, the GMT hand (sorry, Pete...that's what it is!) should be straight up. At noon, the GMT hand should be straight down. If it's not, there is a problem and the hands will need to be removed and reset to their proper positions.
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Post by jkchua on Aug 11, 2014 6:02:47 GMT -8
Uh oh, it's 10pm here and red hand is at 2 o'clock. Thank you Sir for the explanation. Will have this sorted out when I have a chance.
John
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 8:54:47 GMT -8
Hi Sirs. I recently got me a 6117 navigator timer. Sadly the bracelet it came with is short so I had to put it on leather. My question about this watch is, is it normal that the date changes when the red gmt hand passes 12 o'clock marker instead of the hour hand? It's really not a big deal for me but just wanted to know if it is normal for this model. Thanks in advance John A lot of times when these are serviced the watchmaker does not put the hands back on in the right place. You have to have all the hands coordinated, or the watch is pretty much useless for anything but the time. At midnight, the GMT hand (sorry, Pete...that's what it is!) should be straight up. At noon, the GMT hand should be straight down. If it's not, there is a problem and the hands will need to be removed and reset to their proper positions. It's only a GMT hand if it's independently adjustable. Since this caliber has a fixed 24 hour hand, it isn't a GMT hand or movement. Your diagnosis of the problem is correct though :love:
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Post by bobbymike on Aug 11, 2014 9:20:42 GMT -8
My only GMT, has the ETA 2893.
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