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Post by SeikoPsycho on Aug 28, 2014 2:53:38 GMT -8
That is a Great piece of Seiko History there Spencer!
Even though many yellow dial 6139-600x's have surfaced with black inner bezels, I don't recall ever seeing a yellow dial, black inner bezel, Proof, notched case, before.
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Post by seikoholic on Aug 28, 2014 7:39:57 GMT -8
Looking over the catalog, it's a mish-mash of older and newer (in 1972 terms) models, JDM and non-JDM, proof & resist marked. It's sort of a varied sampling of what Seiko was doing at that time. I'm curious about why they're offering a "proof"-marked 6105-8000 nearly two years after they went away, but aren't offering a then-current issue 6105-8110 - and then we notice that while it's an -8000 model, the listed model number is 6105-8110. I'm wondering if they were buying up out-of-date material or overstock stuff and selling that off at reduced prices. The business model seems to be based on selling in quantity to the USA, and also seems a little soft on what you can get or might get with an order. It specifies making secondary and tertiary choices in case your first choice is out. I don't think the photographs are Seiko ones either. The watches are all showing slightly different times from Seiko's preferred display time, and several of the watches are in different setups. Like one 6138 is zero'd out, and another has had the chronograph running. The 6139-6000's indicator ring is cranked over to about :20 past. The model I was most interested in, the 6139-6000, appears to be a gold-dialed model. That'd be my guess. It's proof-marked, notch case, chiclet bracelet. By the way, the watch photographs are 1:1 in scale. Laying my 6139-6005 over the photo of the 6139-6000 they are an exact match for size. Here are the shots posted for you, but if you want to enlarge any of them or get higher res versions, go to the photo album: imgur.com/a/oMtlO
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Rod
WS Benefactor
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Rod on Aug 28, 2014 15:23:03 GMT -8
Amazing I just love the facts.. We need to start a dedicated 6139 thread
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Post by ninja01 on Aug 28, 2014 15:35:18 GMT -8
Yeah, this is great stuff. It reminds me of some info I found on the net about the LeJour labeled version of a Heuer Pasadena "Military" (cal. 7750 chrono) being offered by a marketer in the US. Old catalog shots, price list, etc. Quite helpful. {I own a LeJour example of that one, thus the interest}.
Now, that being said, I notice one "inaccuracy" in the Seiko marketers catalog. They say that hi-beat means 36,000 bph and regularly it is 18,000 bph. Well, not totally wrong, but misleading as they then show a 5626 which is a "hi-beat" by Seiko terminology, but it is NOT a 36K hi-beat, rather it is a 28,800bph!! So, misleading to the buying public (though, likely not intentional). Only the hand-wind 45 family (with reference to KS line) was 36K.
So, interesting to see how Seiko was actually marketed in that era in various places around the world outside the JDM!! Thanks again!! This is a great resource & it may indeed raise more questions than it answers!!
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Post by Groundhog66 on Aug 28, 2014 16:37:28 GMT -8
Amazing I just love the facts.. We need to start a dedicated 6139 thread That would be great, we can also link to it in the Reference section.
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Post by seikoholic on Aug 28, 2014 16:51:29 GMT -8
Yeah, this is great stuff. It reminds me of some info I found on the net about the LeJour labeled version of a Heuer Pasadena "Military" (cal. 7750 chrono) being offered by a marketer in the US. Old catalog shots, price list, etc. Quite helpful. {I own a LeJour example of that one, thus the interest}. Now, that being said, I notice one "inaccuracy" in the Seiko marketers catalog. They say that hi-beat means 36,000 bph and regularly it is 18,000 bph. Well, not totally wrong, but misleading as they then show a 5626 which is a "hi-beat" by Seiko terminology, but it is NOT a 36K hi-beat, rather it is a 28,800bph!! So, misleading to the buying public (though, likely not intentional). Only the hand-wind 45 family (with reference to KS line) was 36K. So, interesting to see how Seiko was actually marketed in that era in various places around the world outside the JDM!! Thanks again!! This is a great resource & it may indeed raise more questions than it answers!! Great catch! It's not the only inaccuracy - the 6105-8000 is listed as a 6105-8110. But Seiko didn't produce this thing, and I get the feeling the people who did were a little more loosey-goosey with their accuracy. My big thing, the reason I wanted it, was to help cement the legitimacy of the gold dial / black indicator ring example, and the chiclet bracelet. I have a blue-dialed 6139-6000 "proof" from February '70 on a chiclet, I got it from an estate sale in Maine. Some guys said at the time that the bracelet wasn't original to the watch, that they hadn't seen it before, that it wasn't a real combination. "something from the dealer I'll bet" one guy said. Now, this isn't a Seiko-created catalog, but it's much harder to pick out the 6139-6000 and say it's not real. If it's not real, then every other watch there has to be called into question. Occam's razor says that they're all real. Here's my 6139-6000 "Proof" on its chiclet.
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Post by Groundhog66 on Aug 28, 2014 17:03:08 GMT -8
Love that chiclet bracelet.
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Post by ninja01 on Aug 28, 2014 22:42:56 GMT -8
To amplify on seikoholic, "Great catch! It's not the only inaccuracy - the 6105-8000 is listed as a 6105-8110. But Seiko didn't produce this thing, and I get the feeling the people who did were a little more loosey-goosey with their accuracy."
Yes, another one I see is in the descriptions of the 6138 chronographs -- on the 2 I see "17j" is the given count!! Well, we know the 6138 only came in 21 & 23 jewel variants ... so they did seem to get a lot of things wrong.
------ But, I do also see the other points you (all) are making .... if some retail dealer (even if 3rd party) did legitimately sell - and show in marketing materials - a certain combination as an "official model" [dial/ring colors, bracelet available, ...] then it is harder to claim that watch is "illegitimate" as a collectible or that it is "doctored". Any "doctoring" was at least done by an entity in the watch making/retailing trade in the historical time period when that product was offered originally to the public.
Also, I do think it quite likely that "obsolete" or prior year models could well have been still offered especially by such firms as produced this sales flyer. Possibly they did buy from Seiko in quantity at wholesale/discount and then offer those models until they were gone. Thus when making a sales flyer for 1972, they could well have pictured items that were no longer produced in that year by Seiko, but still existing in their stock.
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Rod
WS Benefactor
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Rod on Aug 28, 2014 23:35:15 GMT -8
Amazing I just love the facts.. We need to start a dedicated 6139 thread That would be great, we can also link to it in the Reference section.
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Rod
WS Benefactor
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Rod on Aug 29, 2014 0:56:03 GMT -8
Maybe this was Loy's farther…..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 4:20:01 GMT -8
Neat not seen that bracelet used before. Nice that it matches the one in the list. I have a nice Aug '69 6139-6000 yellow proof on a Stelux bracelet. I think the blue is best worn in the evening when the colours (colors) pop.
Nice article.
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Post by seikoholic on Aug 29, 2014 11:00:56 GMT -8
Also, I do think it quite likely that "obsolete" or prior year models could well have been still offered especially by such firms as produced this sales flyer. Possibly they did buy from Seiko in quantity at wholesale/discount and then offer those models until they were gone. Thus when making a sales flyer for 1972, they could well have pictured items that were no longer produced in that year by Seiko, but still existing in their stock. And if they're wholesalers, imagine them being able to get poor sellers or out-of-date models that a drag on inventory. They'd probably get them for a substantial discount from Seiko or whomever, and be able to still add a markup and make money. Overstock.com's entire business model is founded on this. Ditto for a whole host of other businesses.
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