Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Sept 20, 2014 16:26:58 GMT -8
Thanks for the images. I can see under the oscillating weight it has a small gear attached, so it's a "gear winder". Also, I find the pallet fork design pretty cool. Reminds me a little of the offset pallet fork in the 562x series SEIKO hi-beat movements Well, I have no further info on the design of a Ricoh auto-winder except to say it appears they did NOT use an "eccentric/pawl" system like the Pellaton. I did however, uncover supposed calibre#s of Ricoh movements (something I had never seen before): In addition to the cal. 61 & 251 [Women's], I now have heard of the following in addition: 31, 38, 40 and 41 [all having 25 jewels]. This new info is reflected in my updates to the Dr. Seiko Database entry for the Ricoh Mechanical movements: seikoholics.yuku.com/sreply/390/Ricoh-Mechanical-Watches-Auto-Handwind#.VB4T9FfhjNE ================= As various people have commented on the net in recent years, finding detailed info about vintage Ricohs (and Takanos) is quite difficult!!
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Post by ninja01 on Sept 20, 2014 17:33:18 GMT -8
Thanks for the images. I can see under the oscillating weight it has a small gear attached, so it's a "gear winder". Also, I find the pallet fork design pretty cool. Reminds me a little of the offset pallet fork in the 562x series SEIKO hi-beat movements Well, I have no further info on the design of a Ricoh auto-winder except to say it appears they did NOT use an "eccentric/pawl" system like the Pellaton. Oh, you mean this image: So far, that's the best image I have of a disassembled Ricoh auto movement showing anything in the way of auto-winder design. I'm hoping to find some movement "explosion" shots someday ...like what I have for some other movement types like Seiko 5106: Something like that would be ideal!! I have started going thru my own database of movement shots to see if (at least superficially) the Ricoh looks like any Swiss or American designs. So far, I've compared an old Eterna I have (Eternamatic 1243T): and Gyromatic low-beat (Cal. 22??): No obvious "exact copy" yet. ================================= And, the gear .. yeah I noticed that too earlier... though I see what you mean now, geared. I had been wondering if that had to do with it being a ball-bearing type hub though ... as you can see in mine. Though, in my case the steel bearings are "replaced" with jeweled bearings bearings to make this a 45 jewel variant of the movement. =============== I know what you mean about the lever in the 56 family of Seikos (it is not just the 562x, it is also in the LM 560x as well). The Seikomatic site (in their 56 LM page) has a good comparison of the 56 & 62 family levers: www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~smatic/index.html@ www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~smatic/56series/56lm.htmlThe 62 family anchor: The 56 family anchor: and again, the Ricoh: Of course, in the Ricoh there is also that interesting & unusual banking curb mechanism built-in to the lever/anchor which I don't think you find on any(?) Seikos.
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Sept 20, 2014 17:53:39 GMT -8
Thanks for the comparison. I forgot they used it in some of the high end LM's too!
Just looking at the banking system, that is pretty unique. SEIKO just use 2 pins.
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Post by philsinclair on Sept 21, 2014 16:04:05 GMT -8
Hi. Good to see a Ricoh thread. Am told the watchmaker division makes watchmaking machinery, suspect for cheap quartz watches. Went through the wheelbarrow I keep miscellaneous Asian brand watches and found a box of Ricoh watches, 12 autos and 1 hand winder. Don't really know what I have there. Wide Dyanamic with brown dial and brown divers bezel, a Spacial which looks like the Wide Dynamic watch is this thread,an Argonaut which has an internal divers bezel operated by an extra crown, some nos Crystal with multifaceted crystals and some autos in the Rolex President style.
Ricoh were taken to court by Rolex in the USA because some of their product looked too close to the Rolex product. I believe it created a precident at the time. I was always puzzled as to why they didn't take on the Swiss homages in Switzerland instead.
Cheers Phil
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 16:27:47 GMT -8
Hi. Good to see a Ricoh thread. Am told the watchmaker division makes watchmaking machinery, suspect for cheap quartz watches. Went through the wheelbarrow I keep miscellaneous Asian brand watches and found a box of Ricoh watches, 12 autos and 1 hand winder. Don't really know what I have there. Wide Dyanamic with brown dial and brown divers bezel, a Spacial which looks like the Wide Dynamic watch is this thread,an Argonaut which has an internal divers bezel operated by an extra crown, some nos Crystal with multifaceted crystals and some autos in the Rolex President style. Ricoh were taken to court by Rolex in the USA because some of their product looked too close to the Rolex product. I believe it created a precident at the time. I was always puzzled as to why they didn't take on the Swiss homages in Switzerland instead. Cheers Phil That was just Swiss arrogance. I don't know how that turned out but Rolex had it's butt wiped when it went after a Seiko sub brand ROOX. I guess the snooty Swiss legal machine figured they could just intimidate ROOX but they held firm and Rolex lost the suit and had to pay all the ligation costs. Panerai tried to shut down all those Parnis copies that had 'Marina Militaire' printed on the dials and did scare a number of forum owners and eBay sellers...but they all came back and Panerai isn't about to launch a multi million dollar attack because they know they couldn't win. Which one of the dozen or so Parnis manufacturers do they go after; which factory(s) are producing the infringing elements; and does Panerai actually have intellectual rights to the term 'Marina Militaire' which is the offical name of the Italian Navy??? Love to have a peek in one or two of your wheel barrows
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Post by ninja01 on Sept 21, 2014 17:17:31 GMT -8
Hi. Good to see a Ricoh thread. ... autos in the Rolex President style. Ricoh were taken to court by Rolex in the USA because some of their product looked too close to the Rolex product. I believe it created a precident at the time. I was always puzzled as to why they didn't take on the Swiss homages in Switzerland instead. Cheers Phil Yes, I have seen that, in fact, this is the case you are referring to: American Rolex Watch Corporation v. Ricoh Time Corp., 491 F.2d 877, 879 (2d Cir. 1974) You may be able to find info online about it @ casetext.com/case/american-rolex-watch-corp-v-ricoh-time-corp/or law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/491/877/452842/(2nd link still appears to work currently) From that 2nd link we see: "...The complaint sought injunctive relief and damages based on alleged trademark infringement and unfair competition arising from Ricoh's use on its wrist watches of a 'trident' mark said to have infringed Rolex's 'crown' mark used on its watches, and from Ricoh's use of a general configuration similar to that used by Rolex. After a three day bench trial before Harold R. Tyler, Jr., District Judge, the judge made findings of fact and conclusions of law and ordered that judgment be entered dismissing the complaint." on appeal, the court said: "Since we are satisfied that the district court's findings of fact are not clearly erroneous and that its application of the controlling law to the facts was correct, we affirm." Summary of findings: "The district court's essential findings of fact may be briefly summarized: the configuration of Rolex watches is not unique and it had been on the market for many years; Rolex failed to establish any secondary meaning for the configuration of its watches; Ricoh had clearly labeled its product as such and had not attempted to palm it off as a product of Rolex; Ricoh's trident mark is not so similar to Rolex's crown mark as to give rise to confusion; and there was no likelihood that an appreciable number of average prudent purchasers of wrist watches would confuse Ricoh's watch with the Rolex watch in view of, among other things, the widely disparate prices and marketing practices."
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Post by philsinclair on Sept 21, 2014 19:12:03 GMT -8
Pete. I am sure you would love to get in amongst them, trouble is that you would not be seen again until Xmas and there would be little noises coming out of there intermittently as you found surprises . You might even start a Urika thread after finding their box. Cheers Phil
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