Tips for finding Citizen Part Numbers?

[dapellegrini]

I have started to collect a number of vintage Citizens, and am in the habit now (with all of my Seikos at least) of changing out gaskets, crystals, and doing basic case clean-up - if not full overhauls as they arrive.  It seems many vintage Citizens have incorrect crowns as well - so I am trying to figure out where to find part numbers for these kinds of things, and struggling a bit.

The Jules Borel DB is my standard go-to for Seikos - and I can't get it working with its own search, but if I use this base URL:

cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=SEK_CS%5E

And then add on the case code (e.g. 6117-6400), I can always find the page for the watch in question.  For instance: cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=SEK_CS%5E6117-6400

I tried this with a couple Citizens, using this base URL

cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=CIT_CS%5E

But I can't seem to get it to work.  Am I doing it wrong?  Is there a better way to do this?  For example:

cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=CIT_CS%5E4-521358

[trilo]

Seems that one has to use the whole string of characters, like this:

cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?begin=CIT_CS%5E4-721993&end=CIT_&label=CALIBRES_MANUFACTURED_BY_CITIZEN&flag=C

Replacing the case number on that link directs you to section in list where the case code in question can be found. 

If you cut the string into form: cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?begin=CIT_CS%5E4-721993, it gives an error message. 

Your case number cannot be found from boley either. 

Welcome to the happy world of Citizen collecting!

[evildani]

It is very hard sometimes to find the part number you are looking for, what I used int he past is the 60-70s Citizen Service manual for movements Cal 51,52 and 54. Cal 8110 and 8100 use the later method.

And Boley's site, use this link as an example:

boley.de/en/case-parts/citizen?q=4-5&l=7

It will show you the watches 4-51 and 4-53. As far as I under the 4 has no meaning, the 51 is the caliber, then dial, then color variaton.
So. I own a 4-540343Y
Caliber 54 Dial 03 Color 43, no clue what the Y is,
The 67- nomenclature is for the case and dial in a for digit format.

Depending on the year, Citizen docs will refer to 4-XX or 67-XX I think most if not all 8110 are 67-

But there is also the APSYS 

He collects Seiko and Citizen:
sweep-hand.org/2016/07/26/two-tone-orange-dialled-4-520858-61-5773-100m-parawater-diver/

I dont think he collects Citizen anymore:
vintagecitizenwatches.com/2014/01/18/vintage-citizen-compressor-diver-4-520343-y/

And there is 31jeweles in WUS for any 8110 questions.

[inboost]

evildani - I too am unsure of the suffix 'Y' and 'TA' we see on the case model numbers. I thought the suffix might be an indication of the complications in a watch, like Y=day/date, but this is unfounded. I also feel like we only see 'TA' on more special models of Citizen. Perhaps it's a code for higher quality of build or special features?

[evildani]

Apr 27, 2023 8:17:48 GMT -8 inboost said:

evildani - I too am unsure of the suffix 'Y' and 'TA' we see on the case model numbers. I thought the suffix might be an indication of the complications in a watch, like Y=day/date, but this is unfounded. I also feel like we only see 'TA' on more special models of Citizen. Perhaps it's a code for higher quality of build or special features?

You might be right. I have seen that there is a higher jewel count movement on the 69 and 70s citizen divers with the TA postfix and cal 54 instead of 51.
I have a theory that the Y might be stainless steel case.

[dapellegrini]

Interesting info.  Thanks for all of that.  It seems the 4-521358TA is not listed in either JB or Boley...  Do the service manuals for the movements really also give you crystal, gasket and crown part numbers?  

[evildani]

Apr 27, 2023 15:58:49 GMT -8 dapellegrini said:

Interesting info.  Thanks for all of that.  It seems the 4-521358TA is not listed in either JB or Boley...  Do the service manuals for the movements really also give you crystal, gasket and crown part numbers?  

Can you provide a picture of the watch and caseback?

[dapellegrini]

and...

[inboost]

Here's what I have from my casing catalog (covers both of your watches in one page )

Model / Material / Case Type / Crystal / o-ring crystal / o-ring case back / crown / notes

[dapellegrini]

inboost - OMG, thank you!  Now these have two crowns, and I suspect they may not have been the same originally, but it seems over the years most got new crowns for some reason - perhaps usability.  Now to go parts chasing!  

[evildani]

Is your watch a Citizen Seven Star para100mwater? with rotating inner bezel?

[dapellegrini]

Yes, it is.  Actually two different watches here. 

#1
The 4-521358TA is a 1969 SEVEN STAR RALLY CUSTOM.  Inner rotating bezel, day and date complications. 


#2
The 4-521315Y is also a 1969 SEVEN STAR YACHT CUSTOM.  Inner rotating bezel, day and date complications.  


Both are PARAWATER 100m

EDIT: I've got the crystal p/n and at least one of the crown p/n's - thanks inboost!

I suppose I can figure out gaskets that will fit. 

[inboost]

dapellegrini - the crowns might be the same across the two stems. They also might be internally o-ringed hence no listing for a stem seal. The case back and crystal gaskets are listed above, but it's hard to say what they are made of or what size they are. The parts numbers are not descriptive like they are with Seiko! Some of the crystal gaskets will be white teflon rings instead of black rubber rings. I have also had factory citizen crystals in sealed bags come with that while teflon gasket as part of the 'kit'. Those crystals (like your Leopard) are often bonded to a metal ring at the factory. These are not cosmetic but actual structural pieces of the crystal meant to allow strong clamping . sealing of the crystal to the case.

[evildani]

Apr 28, 2023 8:21:59 GMT -8 dapellegrini said:

Yes, it is.  Actually two different watches here. 

#1
The 4-521358TA is a 1969 SEVEN STAR RALLY CUSTOM.  Inner rotating bezel, day and date complications. 


#2
The 4-521315Y is also a 1969 SEVEN STAR YACHT CUSTOM.  Inner rotating bezel, day and date complications.  


Both are PARAWATER 100m

EDIT: I've got the crystal p/n and at least one of the crown p/n's - thanks inboost!

I suppose I can figure out gaskets that will fit. 

That rally custom is awesome, it’s weird that Citizen has way less collectors than Seiko having equally awesome watches.

Also I rarely see Citizen among dealers but I see a ton of Seikos.

[spike77]

Good morning, sorry first of all for the inconvenience ... let me introduce myself, Simone ... from Italy ... I too am a happy owner of the Citizen Custom Rally 4-521358Ta ... and thanks to your discussion I was able to trace the various codes of the present watch ... compatible glasses, crowns ... and more ... I was wondering if any of you could help me trace the codes of the hours, minutes and seconds hands ... I really can't find anything that can give me a straight on the net... really complicated... which is a little easier at Seiko.
Thanks in advance... Greetings
Simon

[dapellegrini]

Welcome Simone!  I am not sure if the hands are noted in the casing guides for Citizen, but in the few scans I have seen recently they are not.  Any thoughts on that inboost?

I would also be curious to know - though I suspect even with a part number, it might be very hard to find them for sale.

[inboost]

spike77, welcome to our forum! I too am very fond of Citizen watches myself.

dapellegrini - actually there is a library of watch hands in my catalog that is arranged a bit oddly. I will need the following information to find the parts numbers for the hands:

1) The movement part number. This is stamped on the main plate, usually down by the balance wheel and I suspect will be a four digit number possibly followed by a letter (1234A)

2) the lengths of the three hands measured from the middle of the center hole to the very tip in millimeters

3) A group code which I think I get to derive from the case back casing number (Is it 4-521358 TA we are looking for hands for?)

4) Attributes of the hands like 'has black base and white hand' or 'has luminous paint' or 'is silver in color' types of descriptions - pictures of the specific hands we are hunting would be best as the catalog has little black and white illustrations of the various hand types to match them to.

[dapellegrini]

Ok, here's what we have:

Case / Model Code: 4-521358TA
Movement: 5290
Hour Hand: ~11mm total length, ~ 8.5mm from center.  1/2 black, 1/2 white, with lume in white part
Minute Hand: ~16mm total length, ~13mm from center.  1/3 black, 2/3 white, with lume in white part
Seconds Hand: ~18mm total length, ~13mm from center, solid baby blue color

[small]

That looks like the heavier oscillating weight that was taken from some poor guys dive watch and replaced with a lighter and inferior one, that would cause a saturation diver to parish...   


wristsushi.proboards.com/thread/22086/update-year-fraudulent-citizen-repair

[dapellegrini]

small - all of these that I have seen have this black rotor.  Here's one on ebay:

www.ebay.com/itm/275598239546

I have a few more in a box somewhere as well