A (Seiko) World Timer Celebration
Aug 13, 2023 12:21:18 GMT -8
69ChevelleSS, Rod, and 11 more like this
Post by dapellegrini on Aug 13, 2023 12:21:18 GMT -8
It has been just about exactly two years since I joined WristSushi (14th of August 2021), with questions about these old mechanical Seiko World Timers. Some good initial legwork from Rod brought me here, and kindness and help from inboost and others had me quickly settling in and finding ways to contribute.
Today I am happy to share the state of my collection (the small corner that is my mechanical World Timer part, I mean), along with notes about what I have learned, and what I am still pondering.
NOTE: If it is not photoed or mentioned here, it is likely not legit.
NOTE 2: I will update the photos and commentary in this first post from time to time - I still have some watches in the mail and may be able to get better photos - without the pink / red reflection of my cellphone cover!
CHAPTER 1
The Tokyo Olympics in 1964
Ok, so our story begins in 1964 with the Olympic celebrations in Tokyo. Enter our first two examples, the silver and dark gray dial versions of the MASWT, case code 6217-7000. Ya, it is referred to as the MASWT, along side the 62MAS in the casing guides of the time. Perhaps a little bit of that otherworldly value and cool factor will rub off with the similar nickname?
These two examples are on Uncle bracelets - sold for the 19mm Omega Speedmaster, but fit perfectly here.
A few notes on this model:
Known variants:
CHAPTER 2
The Asian Games in Bangkok 1966
Seiko didn’t produce any World Timers in 1965. In 1966 they took the concept, updated the case and crown and revised the cities bezel. We also got a new commemorative case back, a new bracelet (the one in the photos here is the original) and a new case code, 6217-7010.
It’s the silver dial on this version that is stunning. At first glance you might think it is the same dial code and look as the silver dial used in the earlier 7000’s. In person though it has a deep iridescent silver mirror finish that is striking and very different from its predecessor. Perhaps just a different manufacturing plant? Dunno. The dial code remains JAPAN 6217-7000TAD, just like some of the later 7000’s, but this is most certainly a different dial finish. Here are a couple more angles
Current pondering... Was there a dark gray dial variant legitimately offered with the Asian Games case back? I have seen one possible example - sold many years ago and the photos are too blurry. All other examples I have seen have one or more things that lead me to believe they are not original... If it does exist - it is a rare bird for sure - and I wonder if like the silver dial, the dark gray will look different from the 7000?
Known variants:
CHAPTER 3
1967, a strange year
During my time sorting through Vintage Seiko mysteries I have often got lost and confused in 1967. I could be quite easily convinced that the company was run by a group of drunken sailors for the entirety of the year. With the world timers, we see two new iterations released.
First, we got an updated 6217-7010, using the same case as the Asian Games version, but for the first time we get lume on the hands and dial. These specific models are amongst the hardest to find in good shape.
The silver dial example above is on an Uncle beads of rice bracelet, sold for the 19mm Omega Speedmaster, but works great on this watch too! The dark gray dial is on a period correct bracelet that is not original this model or series
The dial code was revised to reflect the new dial - JAPAN 6217-7010 TAD. This is also the first time we see what would come to be considered the “horseshoe” design case back used on a world timer.
Then somewhere in the middle of the year - we see a short run of the original Olympic Torch version of the 6217-7000’s, repeated most months through December 1967.
It appears that this re-edition may have been available in two versions. One that used the lumed hands from the updated 7010, and a new red GMT hand, and perhaps another that used the same dial and hands as the original, except that the dark gray dial used was the JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD version, where the bottom half of the 24-hour ring more of a red hue (vs the MADE IN JAPAN dial's yellow hue), and the gold colored GMT is now of the thin variety (instead of the original that only had a tapered GMT on this dial color).
Here are two examples with the updated lumed hands w/ red GMT:
Note that these re-editions use the cities bezel from the original 1964 versions.
Known variants of this year's 7010:
Known variants of this year's 7000's:
CHAPTER 4
As 1968 comes around, it seems that Seiko has decided these World Timers should become a mainstay in their product line up. Here we see a new watch design, a new movement and a new cities bezel with GMT noted for the first time. The case code changed to 6117-6010 - and for the first time we also get an alternate version case code 6117-6019, likely intended for the North American market.
Note: aside from the last digit of the case code, I cannot find a single other difference between the two case codes here.
The bracelet on the dark gray dial example above is correct and original. We actually see signed end links for the first and only time on in this world timer series.
A few more notes:
Known variants:
CHAPTER 5
In 1969, someone at Seiko corporate must have looked that the world timer and thought - this is too traditional a case shape. It’s at the very end of 1969 that we start to see the first production examples of the 6117-6400 and 6117-6409. This new version stayed in production through 1976, and over that run it got several revisions. Here are the main color ways:
The above are all on original bracelets. I won’t go too deep into all the changes that occurred in this run, but briefly:
A complete set of 6117-640x's would be quite large if accounting for the different dials, bezels, case back notation (PROOF, RESIST, RESISTANT) and the 6400 and 6409 versions. As of this writing, I think this is the list of all the variations:
Black dial with gray 24-hours + white cities bezel
Black dial with red/orange 24-hours + black cities bezel
White dial with black 24-hours + white cities bezel
Yellow dial with black 24-hours + yellow cities bezel:
That adds up to 21 versions of this version!
APPENDIX
Here are the silver and white dials
And here more grouped by their logical order of succession than by release dates
And here are the dark gray / black dials
Today I am happy to share the state of my collection (the small corner that is my mechanical World Timer part, I mean), along with notes about what I have learned, and what I am still pondering.
NOTE: If it is not photoed or mentioned here, it is likely not legit.
NOTE 2: I will update the photos and commentary in this first post from time to time - I still have some watches in the mail and may be able to get better photos - without the pink / red reflection of my cellphone cover!
CHAPTER 1
The Tokyo Olympics in 1964
Ok, so our story begins in 1964 with the Olympic celebrations in Tokyo. Enter our first two examples, the silver and dark gray dial versions of the MASWT, case code 6217-7000. Ya, it is referred to as the MASWT, along side the 62MAS in the casing guides of the time. Perhaps a little bit of that otherworldly value and cool factor will rub off with the similar nickname?
These two examples are on Uncle bracelets - sold for the 19mm Omega Speedmaster, but fit perfectly here.
A few notes on this model:
- Production ran from March 1964 through Nov 1964
- In December 1964 the case back was changed to a Dolphin, but production was just for this single month - a photo of the dolphin is in the appendix
- You will see 3 GMT hands used here. The tapered gold-toned version belongs on the dark gray dial. The tapered black version belongs on early silver dials, likely through part of August 1964. The thin black GMT hand belongs on silver dials from August 1964 through the end of the run.
- Silver dials with code JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD are not very common - I wonder if these dials were used for the North American Market?
- COMING SOON: earlier examples of the silver dial with tapered GMT with updated photo
Known variants:
- Silver dial, MADE IN JAPAN, tapered black GMT
- Silver dial, MADE IN JAPAN, thin black GMT
- Silver dial, JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD, thin black GMT
- Dark gray dial, MADE IN JAPAN, tapered gold-tone GMT
- Silver dial, JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD, thin black GMT w/ Dolphin case back
- Possibly... Dark gray dial, MADE IN JAPAN, tapered gold-tone GMT w/ Dolphin case back
CHAPTER 2
The Asian Games in Bangkok 1966
Seiko didn’t produce any World Timers in 1965. In 1966 they took the concept, updated the case and crown and revised the cities bezel. We also got a new commemorative case back, a new bracelet (the one in the photos here is the original) and a new case code, 6217-7010.
It’s the silver dial on this version that is stunning. At first glance you might think it is the same dial code and look as the silver dial used in the earlier 7000’s. In person though it has a deep iridescent silver mirror finish that is striking and very different from its predecessor. Perhaps just a different manufacturing plant? Dunno. The dial code remains JAPAN 6217-7000TAD, just like some of the later 7000’s, but this is most certainly a different dial finish. Here are a couple more angles
Current pondering... Was there a dark gray dial variant legitimately offered with the Asian Games case back? I have seen one possible example - sold many years ago and the photos are too blurry. All other examples I have seen have one or more things that lead me to believe they are not original... If it does exist - it is a rare bird for sure - and I wonder if like the silver dial, the dark gray will look different from the 7000?
Known variants:
- Silver dial, JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD, thin black GMT
- Possibly ... Dark Gray dial ...
CHAPTER 3
1967, a strange year
During my time sorting through Vintage Seiko mysteries I have often got lost and confused in 1967. I could be quite easily convinced that the company was run by a group of drunken sailors for the entirety of the year. With the world timers, we see two new iterations released.
First, we got an updated 6217-7010, using the same case as the Asian Games version, but for the first time we get lume on the hands and dial. These specific models are amongst the hardest to find in good shape.
The silver dial example above is on an Uncle beads of rice bracelet, sold for the 19mm Omega Speedmaster, but works great on this watch too! The dark gray dial is on a period correct bracelet that is not original this model or series
The dial code was revised to reflect the new dial - JAPAN 6217-7010 TAD. This is also the first time we see what would come to be considered the “horseshoe” design case back used on a world timer.
Then somewhere in the middle of the year - we see a short run of the original Olympic Torch version of the 6217-7000’s, repeated most months through December 1967.
It appears that this re-edition may have been available in two versions. One that used the lumed hands from the updated 7010, and a new red GMT hand, and perhaps another that used the same dial and hands as the original, except that the dark gray dial used was the JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD version, where the bottom half of the 24-hour ring more of a red hue (vs the MADE IN JAPAN dial's yellow hue), and the gold colored GMT is now of the thin variety (instead of the original that only had a tapered GMT on this dial color).
Here are two examples with the updated lumed hands w/ red GMT:
Note that these re-editions use the cities bezel from the original 1964 versions.
Known variants of this year's 7010:
- Silver dial, JAPAN 6217-7010 TAD, thin black GMT
- Dark gray dial, JAPAN 6217-7010 TAD, thin gold GMT
Known variants of this year's 7000's:
- Silver dial, MADE IN JAPAN, thin red GMT
- Dark gray dial, JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD, thin red GMT
- Silver dial, MADE IN JAPAN, with thin black GMT and no lume
- Dark gray dial, JAPAN 6217-7000 TAD with thin gold tone GMT and no lume
CHAPTER 4
As 1968 comes around, it seems that Seiko has decided these World Timers should become a mainstay in their product line up. Here we see a new watch design, a new movement and a new cities bezel with GMT noted for the first time. The case code changed to 6117-6010 - and for the first time we also get an alternate version case code 6117-6019, likely intended for the North American market.
Note: aside from the last digit of the case code, I cannot find a single other difference between the two case codes here.
The bracelet on the dark gray dial example above is correct and original. We actually see signed end links for the first and only time on in this world timer series.
A few more notes:
- WORLD TIME moves to 6-oclock on these new dials
- The indices at 12, 6 and 9 are lumed - with an additional dab of lume at 3 - next to the date window
- It appears that the lumed hands from the previous 7010 model are carried forward here
- but the GMT is all new - always red, and with a lumed arrow
- It is possible that some early production examples of the 6117-601X retained the cities bezel from the 6217-7010.
Known variants:
- Silver dial, 6010
- Silver dial, 6019
- Dark gray dial, 6010
- Dark gray dial, 6019
CHAPTER 5
In 1969, someone at Seiko corporate must have looked that the world timer and thought - this is too traditional a case shape. It’s at the very end of 1969 that we start to see the first production examples of the 6117-6400 and 6117-6409. This new version stayed in production through 1976, and over that run it got several revisions. Here are the main color ways:
The above are all on original bracelets. I won’t go too deep into all the changes that occurred in this run, but briefly:
- Early dials carried forward the placement of WORLD TIME at 6-oclock, but later this was moved to 12-oclock
- The cities bezel was updated 3 times, and there are “right and wrong” bezels on different dials
- The gold-toned version was only produced in 1972, and had only one dial and bezel configuration
- In 1974-1975 there is a short run of the main black and white dial variants without lume. Dial codes on those end in 4
- Aftermarket dials, bezels and hands abound for this model - additional caution and scrutiny is required when shopping these!
A complete set of 6117-640x's would be quite large if accounting for the different dials, bezels, case back notation (PROOF, RESIST, RESISTANT) and the 6400 and 6409 versions. As of this writing, I think this is the list of all the variations:
Black dial with gray 24-hours + white cities bezel
- Moscow Dharan, Proof, 6400, WORLD TIME at 6
- Moscow Dharan, Proof, 6400
- Moscow Riyadh, Resistant, 6400
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6400
Black dial with red/orange 24-hours + black cities bezel
- Moscow Dharan, Proof, 6400, WORLD TIME at 6
- Moscow Dharan, Proof, 6400
- Moscow Riyadh, Resistant, 6400
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6400
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6400 - No lume
- Moscow Dharan, Resist, 6409
- Moscow Riyadh, Resistant, 6409
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6409
White dial with black 24-hours + white cities bezel
- Moscow Dharan, Proof, 6400, WORLD TIME at 6
- Moscow Dharan, Proof, 6400
- Moscow Riyadh, Resistant, 6400
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6400
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6400 - No lume
- Moscow Dharan, Resist, 6409
- Moscow Riyadh, Resistant, 6409
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6409
Yellow dial with black 24-hours + yellow cities bezel:
- London over GMT, Resistant, 6409
That adds up to 21 versions of this version!
APPENDIX
Here are the silver and white dials
And here more grouped by their logical order of succession than by release dates
And here are the dark gray / black dials
