Was it real? Asian Games World Timer w/ Black Dial

[dapellegrini]

This one is still a head scratcher for me...  To bring everyone else up to speed - in 1966 Seiko made only one World Timer, with an Asian Games case back.  ALL examples have 7 digit serial numbers that start with 68 - suggesting they were all made in August of 1966.  I am not 100% convinced that 68 at the front of the S/N in this case does mean August 1966, but have to assume for now it does.  

In the dataset, we have three major groupings of watches, [68]14072 to [68]15622, then a large gap before we see [68]80268 to [68]81097.  Then we get another significant gap before a final series from [68]86193 to [68]88140.  Assuming the gaps between those three sets were all Asian Games World Timers, that would give us at least 1550 + 829 + 1947 = 4,326 examples.  

In the two years I have been tracking these, I have only found 27 examples.  I suspect most are in S.E. Asia, and not discovered...



Here are the 27 examples:

seikoworldtime.com/dataView?yearMo=1966-08&thumbs=true


The silver dial is easy to identify - it as a darker and deeper silver / gray color.  Here are my two silver dial versions



And dial out, we find the matching date / stamp:





NOW, FINALLY, on to the real question of this thread.... Did a dark dial version of the Asian Games really get made?  In the data set we find 5 examples:

seikoworldtime.com/dataView?yearMo=1966-08&dialColor=gray&thumbs=true



6815157 is definitely wrong, with the lumed spot dial - that was a 1967, non-Asian Games dial.  Disqualified.

6886193 has a tapered GMT hand and the 7000 cities ring.  Disqualified.

The other 3 all share these attributes:
 - No lume on dial or hands
 - thin gold colored GMT
 - MADE IN JAPAN dial code
 - 7010 Cities bezel w/ Singapore added

That is a very small sliver of examples, but at about 12% of the dataset - is close to the mix we see in the 1964 7000's, so again seems plausible.  

One more data point (I'm sure I've lost even the most marginally interested by now, but will bravely carry on!) - THIS:

bangkokjunkman.com/seiko/vintage-seiko-world-time-6217-7010-asian-games/



That is one of the three in our dataset - and really does seem like a plausible example.

The second in our tiny data set of 3... well I bought it.  The seller had it serviced a year ago by a jeweler in NYC, and the M/H hands were put on backward.  When I had mine serviced - the same thing happened...  So it lingered with a high ask on ebay for a while.  Ultimately I was able to make a deal with the seller and received it today.  First order of business was to uncase it, and flip the hands around.  Here's what they look like when on the wrong way:



And here it is rearranged correctly:



While I was flipping the hands around (a nerve racking exercise for me), I decided I had to see what was on the back of the dial...  so off it came.  Trouble is - I am not sure it is conclusive.  I want to see a 68, I think I might see a 78, but I really don't think it is conclusive - here it is in a few different lights to try and find an angle that might be the most telling:











Assuming it DOES read "78" - it would have been a 1967 olympic torch re-edition dial, and would have come in a different case and with a different cities ring - and I would think at least the cities ring would have followed it into the wrong case in a swap....  

If anyone out there on the internet is reading this AND has a dark gray dial Asian Games watch - please take it to your watch maker and have them check the back of the dial - ALSO please post photos here!

EDIT:

I want to believe that I have a legit Dark Gray Asian Games here - the details line up with the tiny dataset...  but honestly I can't be sure at this point...  I was really hoping to find a CLEAR and BRIGHT stamp on the back of the dial - to either qualify or disqualify it.  Comments, thoughts etc welcome!

[earthphase]

I enjoyed reading this post.

I don’t see anything on the back of that dial after staring for way too long. Lol.

[cd_god]

Aug 21, 2023 17:38:36 GMT -8 dapellegrini said:

Maybe it's just me but from that angle all of the text on the dial looks "off"Also Seiko made very few to none black dial higher end watches back then.  Most if not all KS are redials, no GS, etc.

[dapellegrini]

It is a strange angle, but owning many of these, and having cataloged hundreds, I am pretty confident the dial is legit.  Just can't prove 100% it goes on a 1966 Asian Games case back.

[dapellegrini]

I have a 1964 silver dial sitting right here too, so here they are side-by-side.  The 7010 is in a new case with an updated cities bezel.  Also, clearly someone polished this crystal I may end up swapping it for another NOS I have on hand:

[scubarob99]

Would it be normal to stamp the two numbers on the back so far apart?
I do see a 7 and an 8

Rob

[Fergus]

Hmmm, I just see water stains that look like 7 8 

[scubarob99]

Aug 22, 2023 3:30:21 GMT -8 Fergus said:

Hmmm, I just see water stains that look like 7 8 

I thought that at first, but I'm fairly sure Dan looked at it with magnification

Rob

[dapellegrini]

Nah, just the quick photos I took. No magnification beyond zooming them on my phone. The possible numbers are very faint. I feel like I have seen some stamped numbers far apart like that but can’t find another example.

I agree it seems like a 7 8, but then could just be marks that I want to be numbers.

[dapellegrini]

I keep pouring over the data looking for other clues...

Another data point is standing out to me this morning:

The 1967 black dials used on the 6217-7000 re-editions (without lume spots) are all JAPAN 6217-7000TAD dial codes.  Vs this one's MADE IN JAPAN

seikoworldtime.com/dataView?yearMo=67&modelNo=000&dialColor=gra&thumbs=true


This leads me to further doubt my reading of 78 on that dial - I don't think it would fit in that year.  It seems it should either fit in 1964 (with a fat / tapered GMT hand) or here in 1966... 

And again, all three Black dial Asian Games have this dial code (MADE IN JAPAN), handset (no lume, thin gold GMT) and bezel (w/ Singapore added).