J13055 - Dial Code and Case Back code mismatch... Hmmmm

[dapellegrini]

I was very lucky to acquire this Pre-62MAS 6601-8830, aka J13055.  I decided to have our own John Sachs give it a good overhaul, and get some photos under the case and dial.

I am not clear on the production date / years for this watch - any experts here? 

This one is a 49, so Sept 1964.   I've seen a couple other examples also with serials starting with 49.  The dial is certainly legit, but oddly stamped 62.  Perhaps a service dial?  Perhaps these were made in 1966 and this is a case swap?  Maybe the dial codes just don't always mean anything?







And other photos

[leffemonster]

Have a read through this -

adventuresinamateurwatchfettling.com/2012/07/31/1964-and-all-that-part-ii/

[dapellegrini]

Thanks leffemonster, I had read that article before but forgot the dial code back - which matches mine.  

That brings up another curiosity though, his movement in that article is marked 6601, which matches the dial and case.  Mine is marked 2451, like this one for sale on ebay:

www.ebay.com/itm/155967493857?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

I wonder what the story is there... ?

[leffemonster]

245, 2451 and 6601A are essentially the same movement, just at different time points in the 1960s -

[dapellegrini]

Interesting, thanks!  I see on Menzi, he's got the 245 coming from the 50's, becoming the 2451 and then the 6601 in the 60's. 

Both mine and the one on ebay are from Sept, with the 2451, then Martin's is from October with the 6601.

Next point of curiosity, while we're here... the stamping on the inside of the case back, last line is a L, which per this great article:

www.plus9time.com/blog/2024/1/7/pre-1960s-seiko-case-numbering

Would suggest L=Laurel, but the the movement is marked Sportsmatic... Oh well, Seiko really didn't have their standards straight until at least the lat 60's...

[Rod]

The issue with Seiko's 1962-64 watches is that Seiko was in transition from seperate dial, case, movement codes to a uniform code for a given watch, so a 6217-8000 had a case 8000, movement 6217, and dial 6217-8000t which made sense for sales and servicing.

Where as, pre 1963/4 Seiko's (in general) had, J code cases, seperate movement numbers and dial codes which only sometimes aligned.

So this watch uses a J code case, a unique dial code, and unique movement number, perfectly appropriate for this era and quality.

Then there were the high end watches King/Grand Seiko's that had in 1963/64 5 digit number cases and dial codes but with movement numbers and sometimes no marked movement codes at all, Gold feathers are a good example.

So the 1964 King Seiko 49999 (no market caliber number) 49999 dial code became the 4420-9990, 44 caliber, 9990 dial code and 9990 case code.

Remembering that up until the 1964 Olympics Seiko was a uniquely Japanese manufacture building watches for it local clients. Then it had a chance to become a world wide name by becoming the offical timer for the olympics introducing Seiko to the Olympic spectators, then the brand took off.

Trying to understand why Seiko did something or nothing for a particular watch is going to do your head in, often it was just a tester or stock run out or just Sake Friday!

We have seen people wonder why there are white marks on the back of dials, it's just part of the manufacturing process, flux etching for the bonding of the indices. These and other strange observations are just part of the evolution of Seiko's watches..

Rod

[dapellegrini]

Thanks Rod for the info and context (and the watch).  I am just getting familiar with these pre-olympic models, and find it fascinating.  It is hard to find much information on what a correct version of this model should even look like inside - so happy to add some data points for the next interested party to find

[leffemonster]

I spotted another 2451 Seahorse listed on ebay today, with a J13055 caseback which is stamped with the crane symbol and ‘441’ on the inside. No serial number present.

And then I remembered I’d posted this, which is the same as the one for sale on ebay -

wristsushi.proboards.com/post/262219/thread

Mine has ‘431’ on the inside of the caseback but, again, no serial number.

[Len]

Dial code:SMAJ13H236

Case back code: SW J13055

[dapellegrini]

Jan 22, 2024 0:04:18 GMT -8 Len said:

Dial code:SMAJ13H236

Case back code: SW J13055

....

Very nice.  Do you have a photo of the case back with model code?  I wonder if yours is SW where mine is marked SS?

[Len]

Here are the pictures of case back and the model code