Ricoh Dynamic Wide Watch

[dasher]

So I got this parts & movement lot the other day because the hands on the one cased watch look like 62mas hands:




But among the lot was the Ricoh Dynamic Wide watch as well.  I tried to do some searching and there's not a lot of info about it.  A few lines of info at Seikoholics.yuku, Watchuseek, and a few posts on the SCWF.  I'll have to dig deeper to get info.

I can't get the caseback off, The Rock must have worked on this watch!  However, here are some photos of the watch, I just got it a few days ago and slapped a band on it to see what it can do.  So far it is keeping pretty accurate time.


 


 


 


I was thinking of flipping it, but I think I'm going to learn more about it - and try to get that damn caseback off!

D.

[Groundhog66]

That's a nice looking watch, looking forward to getting more info.

[dasher]

Got the caseback off!  I had to spray some WD-40 on a towel, then apply the towel to the caseback edges and let it sit for bit.  Found a little clasp-type movement holder was loose (along with the screw) and about 4 service marks on the case back.  Not a lot of script on the movement, wonder if things have been replaced...

 


 

 


Dan

[lordflagpolecrabtree]

I absolutely love mine. :love:Probably my favourite watch. Maybe



The movement itself doesn't have any markings but the rotor does !






My crystal has a cyclops, which I don't particularly like. :-/


Is the other one a 7625-8233 ?

[dasher]

Thank you for the comparison photos!  The text on the winding weight must be painted (I guess).  Regarding the 7625, with the exception of mine being a day/date and yours date only, I'll have to check it out when I get home.

Any info about the Ricoh Watch Company you wish to share, Lord Flagpolecrabtree?


Thanks again!

D.

[lordflagpolecrabtree]

Just realised your Seiko is day/date. Serves me right for being a smartarse

I'm afraid I couldn't find any more information than you have.

I would love to know the date mine was made (waterproof so 60's, I think)

[Groundhog66]

Each of yours has a different logo @ 12:00, what's the difference?

[dasher]

This is all I can come up with at the moment:



seikoholics.yuku.com/topic/91/RICOH-TAKANO-Master-Entry-Ad-Scans-here#.VBiRWfldUvc


Lots of reading!


D.

[thianwong]

Ninja01 has about the most extensive research on the Ricoh  as anyone you will find. The company could not compete in the watch world against Seiko, so it broke up its joint venture with Hamilton and returned to Japan to pursue its office equipment business.  I cannot prove it but I have seen a few Ricoh made watches for companies here in Japan. I can only guess that they still made a few commemorative or give-away watches with company logos on the watches.

You will find my Super Wide watch in Ninja01 examples.

3 watch dials by blingmeister, on Flickr

Ricohs caseback shots by blingmeister, on Flickr

[ninja01]

Yeah, very little about Ricoh out there. I got much of my info from Hokkaido Watch Museum (online site in Japanese) which I added (in part) to the xxxxx database. Following is the top of the Ricoh/Takano section:

{Sorry, removing links to that site due to dispute with owner there. Refuse any longer to do free advertising for him!!}

Ricoh got into the business by buying Takano.

Now, specifically about Dynamic Wide:

There was a Dynamic Auto that came out 1st w/ a Ricoh badging, but apparently it (or some derivation of it) had problems and the Dynamic Wide was then developed and replaced the older model. Apparently the "DW" was quite successful as a design as (by what I've been able to find out) it served Ricoh for many years!! Likely all the way until they gave up on the watch business.

From the Dyanamic Auto entry in xxxx:


Here's mine - w/ the 45j version of the movement:


<img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/c8d16b5c1bd440f6fd6430353257cebc5ca24f63.jpg" alt=""><br>It is a Japanese "bubble back", like the old Gyro Marvel from Seiko & the Jet (and other early) Autos from Citizen:


Interestingly, for an early '60s model it is surprisingly large on the wrist!!

And, this movement and basic case style were used for (AFAIK) Ricoh's ONLY "luxury watch" model. It was in SOLID 18K gold!!


It's in the xxxxxx database.

Now, I'll end this post here & come back (when I find it) with a post containing a translation of text out of Hokkaido Watch Museum that explains the problems leading to development of the Dynamic Wide. It's machine translated Japanese, so it's almost as bad as trying to read the original Japanese, but maybe you can get something out of it!!

[ninja01]

OK, actually I did enter some of the Hokkaido text into the database. It is at:


It is near the end of that entry and begins with:

"===============================================================
Historical information:

1. Development of Automatic models

Much of the following is taken from alternate translations of pages from the "Hokkaido Watch Museum" @:"

and describes info on Dynamic Wide seen in the Hokkaido site 'Quoting an interview with "Sue Kazumi", who became the Technical Director of Ricoh Watch'.

I'll just let you all follow that link.

But, one other interesting bit of info about Ricoh/Takano:

This is a JDM model:


and the following is the export counterpart (roughly):


The "export" designator is the Sakura {Japanese word for "Cherry". Thus, for example: a tree called a "Yamazakura" is a "Mountain Cherry"}.

The Ricoh brand started out of Takano after Ricoh Corp. bought them. This is one of the high-end Takano products:


With a 23j hand-wind movement, it is roughly equivalent to the Seiko Lord Marvel, Cronos Special, or Crown Special.

[thianwong]

Great info, Ninja laddie! :dance:

[igniferroque]

Sept 16, 2014 15:59:01 GMT -8 ninja01 said:

and the following is the export counterpart (roughly):

Wow, I love that emblem!

[Adrian-VTA]

The Ricohs look so nice. I've been tempted many times on these. I note some of the movements have a eerie resemblance to the SEIKO 61 series movements. Any detail on how the autowind is done on these?

[Groundhog66]

Sept 16, 2014 15:59:01 GMT -8 ninja01 said:

This is a JDM model:

That's a great looking watch, I love it!

[ninja01]

RE: "That's a great looking watch, I love it!"

Yeah, Ricoh/Takano did make some really nicely designed (from a visual standpoint) stuff. I've been impressed with their "look" especially things that have been shown on the Japanese sites that discuss/show either the old Takano models or the later Ricoh badged items.

My own Ricoh (the 45j Dynamic Auto) is a fine "looker" on the wrist. The solid 18K gold version of it looks really super in pics. The movement is likely as good as an upper/middle quality Citizen, like the top jewel variant (43) of the Crystal line:


Not in Grand Seiko territory, but still capable of fine running anyway.

Look thru the Ricoh section of the database I put together in xxxxxx - there are some impressive looking things there. I'm partial to the "classic" dress watches of Takano, but I also go for the "mod" late-60s to mid-70s styles as well .


Some appetizers for you:



Ricoh did the World Timer thing too! Here's an impressive one, but they had other designs too:


An old dress Takano with a beautiful art dial:


A likely NOS Dynamic Wide:



Just above is the front view of the solid 18kt version of "my" Dynamic Auto!

NOS AutoJust:


And they did rectangular/square too!



Like '50s Seiko and Omega, their best quality movements of that time were "red" (copper plated):

[Adrian-VTA]

That Takano is literally the only art dial I've seen ever that I actually like!

[ninja01]

Sept 16, 2014 19:27:41 GMT -8 Adrian-VTA said:

The Ricohs look so nice. I've been tempted many times on these. I note some of the movements have a eerie resemblance to the SEIKO 61 series movements. Any detail on how the autowind is done on these?

Hi, I'm not ignoring you -- need to check thru my own personal database (including a lot of badly translated -- by 'machine' Japanese text), to see if there's any pics or descriptions that would help you.

Possibly Ricoh licensed an auto-wind mechanism from someone else. ORIENT appears to have done this for their 1st few generations of auto-wind watches in the early '60s. They have something that looks identical to the IWC Pellaton system!! No historical data available to say if they licensed it or just used an expired patent for their own work.


Sample pic of my 1st Generation Orient auto-wind, the "Super Auto Perfect Selfwinding":


If you are used to looking @ IWC automatics, you'll immediately see the resemblance!!

Also was used in my 100j variant of the Grand Prix Auto which I've shown in other threads here.

References to another site/database removed.

sample movement shot:

this watch model is supposedly made for the Tokyo 1964 Olympics, giving you a time-frame.

....

At this point, I'm looking thru some text about the Dynamic Auto 45j from a Japanese author. He says (machine translation):

"DYNAMIC/dynamic introduces this time is a series most widely developed with the Ricoh automatic volume wristwatch. It forms it to the installing machine by an original design of this company very beautiful."

I'll consider that a clue to it's design!!

At any rate, the pics posted so far in this thread do (to me) indicate it is NOT like the early Orients (Pellaton based) and likely more like the Citizen than the Seiko (magic fingers) in terms of internal design.


Anyway, I'll report back if I find further Ricoh auto-wind mechanism data.

UPDATE: to show you what I'm "slogging through", here's the translation of Hokkaido Watch Museum text describing the early attempts at Auto-wind by Ricoh [Dynamic Auto thru the improved Dynamic Wide] in an interview an interview with (or about) "Sue Kazumi", also called "Harmony Sea" or "end of the sea" or "Japanese Sea" who became the Technical Director of Ricoh Watch:

It starts the design of the clock equipped with the automatic winding mechanism and the calendar as a basic ..this chateau.. move at end.

The management of a high field deteriorated while doing so, and the automatic rolling clock that end had designed was named, "Dynamic auto", and put on the market from the Ricoh brand so as 33-Koku luxury model of most domestic production in October, 1962 at that time. The president and Kiyoshi Ichimura of Ricoh Watch seem to have hastened the following new sale interpreting, "Can the clock be designed early thus?" because a high field became Ricoh in August of the same year and it became a sale soon though it took about two years to develop. It can be said that "Dynamic [o-tojasuto]" including the day [deitojasuto] mechanism into which the date and a day of the week momentarily change in 24 o'clock when Rolex is just like is vivid externals to which the watchmaker is exactly done in Rolex at end.

However,

It did not still reach the one of the head of the house though it was this mechanism named "Jump type calendar device at the moment" in Japanese, there were a lot of breakdowns, and after it had put it on the market, it became the mountain of returned goods soon. There was a serious defect in the design because it was a design of end of the theory sect, and it seems that there was a user like an extreme reverse-bunch-punch etc. of an impossible fast-forwarding and the needle of the calendar about there maybe because the desire is not unabashedly taken to the designer either though it is not possible to think.

Then, it exempts from all miscellaneous duties except the design at end, and the development of a new automatic rolling move is started. It was put on the market as "Dynamic width" on February 14, 1966. It was a move that thoroughly pursued it was easy to make, adjusted easily, and lasting long though the jump type calendar device was cut momentarily breakable.

｢The diameter of the barrel drum and temp was taken to its maximum greatly, and the ankle of the transformation was arranged. The large pit was opened there because this ankle body was able to be widened considerably and one [dotepin] was put. Adjusting it by one is better and efficiency is better than it does restlessly by two though [dotepin] that adjusts the ankle {Ed. anchor??}  usually stands on the bottom board by two and places the ankle pole  {Ed. anchor arbor??} between those and is crowded. This hole of the ankle {Ed. anchor??} was made a treatment device hole, and the stag beetle that [tsumekoku] and the shake stone {Ed. cap jewel?} entered was cut with the Japanese syllabary remunerative board {Ed. have absolutely NO idea there}. This was an epoch-making design. It is easy It rolls it up, and to be efficient, and to have adjusted the automatic rolling rotor because it designed so that [pinningupointo] is at the best position when the place of the beard rice cake and the beard receiving is at a left position of [ryuuzu]. ｣ {Ed note: }

This move became a long seller, and seems to have been installed in the automatic machine type rolling clock until the at least 1990's for overseas consumption.

[ninja01]

OK, have some info on automatic Ricoh movement design:

I've placed it in the following xxxx Database entry:

Links removed due to dispute with owner of that site, refuse to do his advertising for him for free any longer!!

There I have info and scans from a Heinz Hampel book on calibres called "61" [Men] and "251 [Women], and show a very unusual design feature noted in the "61":

k

Experienced watchmakers & horologists will immediately know what they are seeing above and know WHY it is quite different from the vast majority of modern (let's say anywhere after the 1920s as a rough estimate) movements from Swiss, American, and Japanese sources.

This info now highlights a feature of an old Ricoh Dynamic Wide ad which I had not paid attention to before!!


Look just to the left of the bracelet clasp and get another view of the same feature shown in the close-up photo from the cal. 61!!


Have fun reading!!

Another teaser:


a partially "disrobed" cal. 61.

[ninja01]

Well, I have no further info on the design of a Ricoh auto-winder except to say it appears they did NOT use an "eccentric/pawl" system like the Pellaton.

I did however, uncover supposed calibre#s of Ricoh movements (something I had never seen before):

In addition to the cal. 61 & 251 [Women's], I now have heard of the following in addition:

31, 38, 40 and 41 [all having 25 jewels].

Database reference deleted.
=================
As various people have commented on the net in recent years, finding detailed info about vintage Ricohs (and Takanos) is quite difficult!!