Don't get your watches serviced

[cd_god]

If you love your watch do not get it serviced.

Here is why.

As we all know there are few qualified watchmakers out there and everyone knows that.  That is why it takes 6 months to a year or more to get your watch back.  While your favorite watch is away it soon becomes forgotten and replaced by something else (or many something elses) to fill the hole in your life.  This is why you see so many watches listed for sale as "just back from the spa".  And anyone who doesn't do their own work whether it be on bikes, cars, watches what have you knows you will never recoup your investment and even if you do your own work rarely do you recoup your investment.

I have a couple that were fixed and have barely been worn since I got them back while I find myself wearing the watches that were customized or MOD'd while in the shop still appealing when I get them back.

Maybe it is just me but be forewarned if it happens to you

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2014 18:11:48 GMT -8 cd_god said:

If you love your watch do not get it serviced.

Here is why.

As we all know there are few qualified watchmakers out there and everyone knows that.  That is why it takes 6 months to a year or more to get your watch back.  While your favorite watch is away it soon becomes forgotten and replaced by something else (or many something elses) to fill the hole in your life.  This is why you see so many watches listed for sale as "just back from the spa".  And anyone who doesn't do their own work whether it be on bikes, cars, watches what have you knows you will never recoup your investment and even if you do your own work rarely do you recoup your investment.

I have a couple that were fixed and have barely been worn since I got them back while I find myself wearing the watches that were customized or MOD'd while in the shop still appealing when I get them back.

Maybe it is just me but be forewarned if it happens to you

Josh, even if you do your own work, watches often lose their appeal after the flush of the hunt and wait is over. I have drawers full of them

But it is still part of the process to send them to Spencer and others to put them back into running order.
You may not recoup the investment of selling a serviced watch but I'm fairly certain that you will lose even more by trying to sell a watch as not working or 'service history unknown'.

MODs seldom return the investment made but people seem to be happy to do it anyway

[timewatcher]

Hell.......  99% or more of my watches have never been serviced!  If it aint broke......dont mess with it!
When selling a watch and stating that service history is un-known makes proper sense!

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2014 18:35:08 GMT -8 timewatcher said:

Hell.......  99% or more of my watches have never been serviced!  If it aint broke......dont mess with it!
When selling a watch and stating that service history is un-known makes proper sense!

Sadly that is the thinking that destroys so many good watches.
Leaving watches unserviced until they display problems is no different than driving your car and never changing the oil until the engine seizes.

Just because a watch runs doesn't mean it isn't wearing itself to death. Just ask anyone who has worked on a 6309 movement about what is the most often ruined part...it's the balance staff pivots. Why are so many damaged? Because people never 'have the oil changed'!

I don't think anyone who considers themselves a WIS or knowledgeable about watches wold ever subscribe to the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' nonsense. That is about engineering for the sake of engineering and not about regular service and maintenance.

Mentioning that a watch's service history is unknown is not a positive selling point. It implies ignorance on the part of the seller and should send up a huge red flag to potential buyers unless the selling price is 'too good to be true'.

I doubt that I would ever buy one of your watches considering that 99% of them have never been serviced...unless they were selling for less than the parts I needed.

[timewatcher]

I suppose most who sell their watches and state "service history un-known" are ignorant then? 
Almost every watch I have bought from a Forumer here has stated "service history un-known" 
Saying that to me is being honest! 

As to any watches I may sell here.............you couldnt afford them anyway! 

[timewatcher]

Oct 24, 2014 19:32:30 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

Oct 24, 2014 18:35:08 GMT -8 timewatcher said:

Hell.......  99% or more of my watches have never been serviced!  If it aint broke......dont mess with it!
When selling a watch and stating that service history is un-known makes proper sense!

Sadly that is the thinking that destroys so many good watches.
Leaving watches unserviced until they display problems is no different than driving your car and never changing the oil until the engine seizes.

Just because a watch runs doesn't mean it isn't wearing itself to death. Just ask anyone who has worked on a 6309 movement about what is the most often ruined part...it's the balance staff pivots. Why are so many damaged? Because people never 'have the oil changed'!

I don't think anyone who considers themselves a WIS or knowledgeable about watches wold ever subscribe to the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' nonsense. That is about engineering for the sake of engineering and not about regular service and maintenance.

Mentioning that a watch's service history is unknown is not a positive selling point. It implies ignorance on the part of the seller and should send up a huge red flag to potential buyers unless the selling price is 'too good to be true'.  I might answer that statement by saying that the last watch I bought was from a Forumer (a VERY well know Forumer at that) and he is FAR from being ignorant and in fact would take offense by it if you were to tell him that!

I doubt that I would ever buy one of your watches considering that 99% of them have never been serviced...unless they were selling for less than the parts I needed.

[tritto]

I'm not 100% sure where I sit on the service thing. I've had a few watches serviced and then not really worn them afterwards. I felt a bit silly putting $100 to $150 into watches that I bought for less than $100 and had little prospect of recouping my costs.

However, there are also some watches that I've done preventative maintenance on because they're special and I'm sure they're going to stay in the collection long term.

I've a 6309 7040 that with AM dial etc. I can't see myself having it serviced until it needs it because I have several donor movements and could always pick up another if I needed it.

In the end, for any collection of any size or with regular turnover it's just not feasible to service every watch of unknown service history - unless you can do it yourself.

[cobrajet25]

Getting a watch serviced every 5-7 years doesn't prevent wear, it just reduces it.  Just like with an engine.  Back when these watches were $195 new, a movement service cost $40-$50.  Now, the cost to service a watch that may be worth $300 on a good day is...$150.

Here we come to "the point of diminishing returns".  If I buy an old 6309 and it doesn't keep good time, has a poor power reserve, or makes weird noises, I simply don't wear it.  It is going to be a poor and unreliable timekeeper anyway.  The watch has demonstrated to me that it is dry inside, and needs service in order to prevent damage.

But if I buy one that runs strong, has a good power reserve, keeps great time, and has a few mystery service inscriptions inside the caseback showing me that it has been maintained, well, why NOT wear it?  Why send it out for a service when it is telling me by it's performance that it is not in need of one just yet?

Watches are like any other machine.  They need maintenance.  But I don't change the oil in a car when I am able to determine by inspection that it has no immediate need for it.  Plus, the inside of a watch and the inside of a PowerStroke diesel are two completely different worlds.  Heat, water contamination, fuel contamination, carbon buildup, extreme pressure...they all facilitate the need for frequent oil changes in an engine, and such conditions are not present inside of a Seiko.

JMHO.

[martog]

It is true but I like to get what I have serviced instead of continually buying peices I am nearly there recently my 5H26 seiko Quartz diver returned from Spencer and is one of my most liked watches, my Tutima Mil Chrono had an extensive service, and my Citizen "Speedy" went to Brian for a full service, that should be back in a few days now cant wait. I just sent my 6309-7040 off to Spencer for a ground up rebuild. so yes going through the process of getting what I have serviced and repaired so I can enjoy them long term with no Issues.

Mark

[SeikoPsycho]

    In my opinion a watch will tell you when it needs service by it's accuracy. If it's keeping good time and has a good power reserve commonsense says it's well lubricated. 95% of all watches sold on our forums are sold with service histories unknown. I'm not sure it takes away from the value as we all purchase them in such condition. Is it nice to hear that a watch has recently been serviced? Only if you know that the watch was serviced correctly.

 I'm in the automatic transmission business. I hear it all the time, "My transmission was Recently Rebuilt" My first question is "By Who?". If you don't know the Rebuilder you can't claim the Quality of the rebuild. The same goes with watches. Lots of sellers claim "just serviced" but by who? and under what circumstances?

    I have 75 to 100 watches. Most keep good time. a few do need service because they don't keep good time and a few need service because they don't run. If I were to service all my watches I'd have to kiss this hobby goodby because there aren't enough hours in the day for me to accomplish the task. Maybe when I'm retired and all the honeydoo chores are out of the way and maybe not. If I had to pay someone else to service them I'd surely be broke. Several years ago when I was just getting into this hobby I sent off a couple 6139's to a well known + respected watchmaker. He had them for over 6 months, charged me a very hefty price, and guess what? they still weren't right. That's when I decided I'd learn to work on my own watches. After all, other then size, it's no different then an automatic transmission. It's a very complex puzzle with hundreds of pieces and if it's not correctly assessed, cleaned, lubricated and assembled properly it isn't going to work correctly.

  Personally, I'd prefer to buy a grungy original that hasn't been messed with then a watch that has "just been serviced" because unless it was serviced by someone I know to be competent, "Just been serviced" means nothing.

[cayenne1200]

As a long time collector of vintage watches and newbie in the filed of Seiko I find this an interesting discussion. With all my watches I almost never hesitated to give them a servicef they were running dry. I had every new acquisition inspected by my watchmaker of trust and followed his judgement. If he saud "dry like a desert" I didn't wer the watch until inspection no matter if the performance is perfect or not. But thise watches are rolex, Patek or other Swiss brands with a pretty high value in comparison to Service costs.

But with Seiko everything is different for me now. Watches with a value of only some hundred € or USD are causing similar serpvice costs as standard Swiss movements (and I have to convince my wm to touch them at all as he is a pretty conservative guy with focus on Swiss watches). Therefore I made the decision for myself that I am asking the seller if the watch runs fine. If yes, I will not service them and hope the best. I hope this will work out fine :-)

[Deleted]

If I get a 150+ year old clock in the door which has service dates written all over the back of the dial from day dot about once per 3 to 5 years the movement is normally in exceptional condition 'never' having been rebushed on worn pivot holes. Where as if I get a clock in which has hardly been serviced and normally only when it stops working then they have normally been through the wars with bushing been done or all needing doing and worn out pivots.

The short of it is this. It is a metal thing that rotates. It is NOT self lubricating. You do not leave your car without a service until it starts slowing down, or at least you shouldn't do, so why do this with a watch? Also leaving some thing standing without being used can be worse than using it all the time. Oil goes sticky when it has been left to stand. I say get your watches serviced so they are accurate and swollow the loss if you sell them on. It's not like they cost a fortune to run on a weekly basis.

[Thomas]

Hello gentlemen,


Not to hijack the thread, but how do you get Spenser to work on a watch? 


At the website there is no contact info, and I sent him a PM a few days ago, but I haven't heard back from him. 


Maybe I need to talk to his boss?    But I don't have her contact info either! 


- Thomas

[dougbthom]

As I acquire a few of the vintage Seiko watches (6138's and 6139's) being a newcomer  I find it becomes more and more difficult on deciding which one to wear on any given day. I made up my mind at the very beginning that I wanted each and every watch that I collected to run at peak performance. As a newcomer I do not have the experience to be able to determine whether a new acquisition requires service or not and basically I ignored what the "seller" told me about servicing. I was told about Spencer from a few people as I got more involved in the hobby and as a result I have and will be sending any new purchases to him for his assessment and if needed a complete overhaul. Any watches I have had come back from him have in my eyes been returned to me in as close to new condition as is possible with a used and older watch. I can see where this would become a major concern if I had a collection of many watches. Would this thinking be possible if I had a collection of 20, 30 watches? Not too likely! But in my mind I can pick up any one of my watches and know in my mind that they are performing as they're designed to do. I guess it gives me piece of mind. I have always been a firm believer in "preventative maintenance" and perhaps at times over service many things such as automobiles and so on.

[russtmurray]

Some good thoughts expressed here. Nevertheless, if I am selling I will do my best to identify any shortcomings and if I'm not certain of a watch's service history I will still indicate "unknown". Buy the seller, right?  

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2014 19:48:03 GMT -8 timewatcher said:

I suppose most who sell their watches and state "service history un-known" are ignorant then? 
Almost every watch I have bought from a Forumer here has stated "service history un-known" 
Saying that to me is being honest! 

As to any watches I may sell here.............you couldnt afford them anyway! 

Your reading comprehension is deplorable at times. I never called anyone ignorant. I said it implied ignorance on the part of the seller...simply that he/she does not know the state of service. I also never said or implied that this was dishonest at all. My warning was that with 'unknown service history' you have no idea whether the watch will run for a week or years so it is a big gamble.

I could certainly afford any of your watches but I choose not to spend a lot of money on watches...and you don't have or have not shown any watches that I would want to buy.

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2014 23:58:09 GMT -8 cobrajet25 said:

Getting a watch serviced every 5-7 years doesn't prevent wear, it just reduces it.  Just like with an engine.  Back when these watches were $195 new, a movement service cost $40-$50.  Now, the cost to service a watch that may be worth $300 on a good day is...$150.

Here we come to "the point of diminishing returns".  If I buy an old 6309 and it doesn't keep good time, has a poor power reserve, or makes weird noises, I simply don't wear it.  It is going to be a poor and unreliable timekeeper anyway.  The watch has demonstrated to me that it is dry inside, and needs service in order to prevent damage.

But if I buy one that runs strong, has a good power reserve, keeps great time, and has a few mystery service inscriptions inside the caseback showing me that it has been maintained, well, why NOT wear it?  Why send it out for a service when it is telling me by it's performance that it is not in need of one just yet?

Watches are like any other machine.  They need maintenance.  But I don't change the oil in a car when I am able to determine by inspection that it has no immediate need for it.  Plus, the inside of a watch and the inside of a PowerStroke diesel are two completely different worlds.  Heat, water contamination, fuel contamination, carbon buildup, extreme pressure...they all facilitate the need for frequent oil changes in an engine, and such conditions are not present inside of a Seiko.

JMHO.

All good points Aaron. I am simply countering Josh's view that we should never service our watches.
My take is on the purely technical aspects. Leaving a watch with unknown service history to run until it stops or acts up really is the same as driving a car until it stops or starts making noises without servicing. The lubricants in watch obviously differ drastically from internal combustion engines. Other than what the oils are intended to do; there is really no comparison. Engine oils don't dry out or harden to the consistency of hard rubber like they can in watches. But changing oils does serve the same purpose in watches and engines...it is to remove dirt and metal bits that otherwise work like sand paper on bearings and jewels. It may take 10 years or more for this to happen in a watch while it can and does happen in a matter of months in engines.

I'm not prepared to spend the money or put up with the wait to have a watch serviced so I learned how to do it myself.
True; I have revived quite a few 'dead' watches into excellent runners just with a cleaning and lubrication...but I have seen way to many that will never run right because they were left until too late. Vintage watch parts are often difficult to unobtanium so it makes sense to lessen the likelyhood of wear whenever possible.

That being said; watches that live in boxes only to be taken out and worn once a month or once a year probably won't grind themselves into pulp from the little use they get...unless they live on watch winders

[timewatcher]

Oct 25, 2014 14:49:02 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

Oct 24, 2014 19:48:03 GMT -8 timewatcher said:

I suppose most who sell their watches and state "service history un-known" are ignorant then? 
Almost every watch I have bought from a Forumer here has stated "service history un-known" 
Saying that to me is being honest! 

As to any watches I may sell here.............you couldnt afford them anyway! 

Your reading comprehension is deplorable at times. I never called anyone ignorant. I said it implied ignorance on the part of the seller...simply that he/she does not know the state of service. I also never said or implied that this was dishonest at all. My warning was that with 'unknown service history' you have no idea whether the watch will run for a week or years so it is a big gamble.

I could certainly afford any of your watches but I choose not to spend a lot of money on watches...and you don't have or have not shown any watches that I would want to buy.

Would you please explain to me then what is the difference between implied ignorance and ignorance!?    To me its one and the same thing!

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 15:10:42 GMT -8 timewatcher said:

Oct 25, 2014 14:49:02 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

Your reading comprehension is deplorable at times. I never called anyone ignorant. I said it implied ignorance on the part of the seller...simply that he/she does not know the state of service. I also never said or implied that this was dishonest at all. My warning was that with 'unknown service history' you have no idea whether the watch will run for a week or years so it is a big gamble.

I could certainly afford any of your watches but I choose not to spend a lot of money on watches...and you don't have or have not shown any watches that I would want to buy.

Would you please explain to me then what is the difference between implied ignorance and ignorance!?    To me its one and the same thing!

The problem is not with the words themselves, only how you chose to read them...incorrectly. Check out a dictionary and see if you can see where your assumptions were in error.

[sdoocms]

I disagree with some .  If I have a watch that I want to run "top notch" I get it serviced, but only if it needs it.