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Post by bertnet on Jun 28, 2015 13:32:38 GMT -8
Hi everybody , I would like to ask your opinion on this watch , is the first time I see a black dial with "speed-timer" for sold , it's original or after market ? I read here and there that the black dial was only with "automatic chronograph" . Thanks.   |
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tritto
WS Benefactor
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Post by tritto on Jun 28, 2015 14:43:39 GMT -8
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Jun 28, 2015 15:55:20 GMT -8
That one is a fantasy piece. The dial is absolutely aftermarket, and Bullhead Speed-Timers only came in brown.
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Post by doomguy10011 on Jun 28, 2015 17:13:15 GMT -8
As cobrajet25 said, that dial is definitely aftermarket.
It's also interesting that the kanji there reads "blue horse" (ao uma), instead of the usual "black horse".
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Post by bertnet on Jun 28, 2015 20:45:15 GMT -8
thank you very much,that's what I thought.
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west.au
Timekeeper
Steve
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Post by west.au on Jun 29, 2015 1:02:11 GMT -8
and the bezel insert is wrong ... a black bullhead should be all silver not gold & silver
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west.au
Timekeeper
Steve
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Post by west.au on Jun 29, 2015 1:15:37 GMT -8
also  ... the dial is marked 6138-0010T a black bullhead dial should be marked 6138-0060T (I have seen the dial marked "0010T" available from a certain "merchant" based in the Philippines) and the sweep hand is in red/orange (should be yellow) A somewhat lazy franken job ... they didnt even bother with a repo bracelet, just gave it a tacky black strap |
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Post by bertnet on Jun 29, 2015 2:03:43 GMT -8
Thanks
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Post by jeroni0 on Jun 29, 2015 2:19:06 GMT -8
and the bezel insert is wrong ... a black bullhead should be all silver not gold & silver the black bullheads sold in Japan, the bezel insert is gold and silver and the other countries are silver. |
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west.au
Timekeeper
Steve
Posts: 408
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Post by west.au on Jun 29, 2015 5:04:21 GMT -8
and the bezel insert is wrong ... a black bullhead should be all silver not gold & silver the black bullheads sold in Japan, the bezel insert is gold and silver and the other countries are silver. I wish no disrespect, or to cause issues with moderators ... but I have 3 bullheads (and one in post), and I spend a lot of time studying bullheads. Whilst it is easy to find black bullheads (online) with gold & silver bezels, if you look at the quality, the spacing of letters & numbers, the accuracy of the font ... the bezels come up lacking (something a JDM model would not show), I will admit that some of the AM silver bezels have issues also, but when you find a nice original & untouched black bullhead the bezel is always silver and crisp.  period catalogue pic - all silver bezel I also bookmark everything I come across, the following provide a good glossary: wristsushi.proboards.com/thread/4092/seiko-bullheadswww.network54.com/Forum/621199/thread/1229634632/Seiko+6138-0040+%26quot%3BKuro+Uma%26quot%3B+%5B%26quot%3BBlack+Horse%26quot%3B%5D,+AKA+%26quot%3BBlack+Bullhead%26quot%3B seikobullhead.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/seiko-bullhead.htmlIf there is an authentic JDM silver/gold bezel black bullhead out there I will happily buy it ... I will retract this post and eat my words. I have also read that there is supposedly a JDM blue bullhead (6138-0600) but in this day and age with a lot of collectors happy to post pics of some really nice watches ... I have yet to see one I only type this to add to honest debate & discussion |
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Jun 29, 2015 5:19:50 GMT -8
NOS black Bullhead bezels have yellow markers and silver lettering/numbers. The yellow fades so fast that early repro bezels had silver lettering and silver markers. Many originals which have been on watches since the 1970s have faded as well.  |
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west.au
Timekeeper
Steve
Posts: 408
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Post by west.au on Jun 29, 2015 6:59:00 GMT -8
NOS black Bullhead bezels have yellow markers and silver lettering/numbers. The yellow fades so fast that early repro bezels had silver lettering and silver markers. Many originals which have been on watches since the 1970s have faded as well. my scepticism is this, the photo provided above and the following two item numbers: 181734754313 221771593323 are visually quite similar - the packets are clones even down to the ink smudge on the top edge of the "1" ... I wonder if fakes are now so ubiquitous that they are now accepted as normal. They are supposedly from two different sellers in the Philippines, you can see why I view this with scepticism ... I have also observed that whenever packets like these have hand written codes on them they always have the same idiosyncrasies (note in the second item) the way the "3" and the "G" is done, now compare this with all the current listings ... you see a pattern. So, either Seiko only had one person doing the packets for there parts (now the supposed NOS we see listed) or there is a 'faker' ... probably in the Philippines. |
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Post by jeroni0 on Jun 29, 2015 7:35:09 GMT -8
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Jun 29, 2015 15:11:03 GMT -8
NOS black Bullhead bezels have yellow markers and silver lettering/numbers. The yellow fades so fast that early repro bezels had silver lettering and silver markers. Many originals which have been on watches since the 1970s have faded as well. my scepticism is this, the photo provided above and the following two item numbers: 181734754313 221771593323 are visually quite similar - the packets are clones even down to the ink smudge on the top edge of the "1" ... I wonder if fakes are now so ubiquitous that they are now accepted as normal. They are supposedly from two different sellers in the Philippines, you can see why I view this with scepticism ... I have also observed that whenever packets like these have hand written codes on them they always have the same idiosyncrasies (note in the second item) the way the "3" and the "G" is done, now compare this with all the current listings ... you see a pattern. So, either Seiko only had one person doing the packets for there parts (now the supposed NOS we see listed) or there is a 'faker' ... probably in the Philippines. If you have 20 NOS bezels to sell, you are not going to take a picture of each of the 20 individual bezels and their envelopes. You will use the same picture. Plus, others with the same bezel to sell are possibly going to use your picture. Additionally, fakers don't tend to reproduce the actual packaging the part came it. It's more trouble than it's worth. I have seen the fake bezels, and they are usually pretty easy to spot if you know what to look for. |
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... the dial is marked 6138-0010T a black bullhead dial should be marked 6138-0060T 
