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Post by earthphase on Nov 4, 2015 8:04:53 GMT -8
Having migrated to vintage Seiko from the world of vintage Swiss I was blown away at what I could get my hands on for $500.
I have now realized that Seiko has to be the most "fiddled" with brand in horological history. If the phrase "buy the seller, not the watch" has ever applied, it's vintage Seiko. I think the hunt for vintage Seiko is much harder then for anything else I have obsessed over.
Do you agree?
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Post by catkicker on Nov 4, 2015 8:55:21 GMT -8
I agree with you. I still get more then one opinion on a vintage Seiko before buying or bidding. It has kept me from being sorry. I'm, also very cautious about who works on my watches. While i very much enjoy the hunt and restoring and wearing these watches I have to be honest they are becoming a investment. That will increase in value over time.
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Post by seikoholic on Nov 4, 2015 10:13:36 GMT -8
They weren't expensive, were considered disposable by their original owners, and were essentially worthless for decades. This removed a lot barriers people would otherwise have to opening up the watches and fooling around in them. Now that they're worth a lot more money, all of these watches, good / bad / ugly, are swimming to the surface.
I remember talking to Jonathan once about the vintage divers, especially the 6159s and he laughed - "Huge heavy things, no one wanted them, I couldn't give them away.".
It pays to know what you're looking for, to buy smart, and to buy the seller if at all possible.
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Post by doomguy10011 on Nov 4, 2015 10:55:28 GMT -8
I agree too. One thing I like about vintage Seiko collection is that it's like a treasure hunt. You have to patiently and diligently search through heaps of dirt and junk to find that one gold nugget you've been waiting for. It's especially more exciting when you're able to get a good deal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 10:59:15 GMT -8
I totally agree, so many 'Frankens' out there in the Seiko Vintage ranges, it doesn't seem too matter on what model it is. Seems that divers and the like are favourites, also Bellmatics.
I think that the phrase 'Caveat Emptor' applies more to vintage Seiko collectors than most other vintage timepiece collectors.
You really need to buy the seller, the guy I sometimes buy from always sells good honest watches, I got my Bellmatic and Weekdater and also my Actus from him and all three watches are top notch.
I tend to follow him as a vendor and pounce on the item, when he has one too sell, sadly, they don't come up for sale too frequently.
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GuyJ
Needs a Life!
Whitley Bay, UK
Posts: 2,862 
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Post by GuyJ on Nov 4, 2015 17:05:30 GMT -8
I wonder how many are out there tucked away in perfect condition, though.
As in, the people who didn't think much of them and maybe fiddled about or sold 'em cheap or bashed them about, makes me believe there are still a fair amount that people just don't realise what they have and are simply unaware of the desire for them and therefore may never be seen!
Wishful thinking, but it wouldn't surprise me. Maybe we should post up notices in every shop window asking to get in touch if they have an 'old looking Seiko' for a 'catalogue project'. Then the subsequent 'hmm I can take this off your hands for 20 quid if ya want? It is quite old after all...'. :-)
I agree, though, that the mission to find out about the 6105 was such a long winded, but enjoyable journey, that in a way it's daunting when I start looking into 6139/8s as they are really desirable to me at the moment. When I do get round to having the money to spend I will enjoy the process...among the many mistakes I'll make!
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Post by catkicker on Nov 4, 2015 17:52:39 GMT -8
I wonder how many are out there tucked away in perfect condition, though.
As in, the people who didn't think much of them and maybe fiddled about or sold 'em cheap or bashed them about, makes me believe there are still a fair amount that people just don't realise what they have and are simply unaware of the desire for them and therefore may never be seen! Wishful thinking, but it wouldn't surprise me. Maybe we should post up notices in every shop window asking to get in touch if they have an 'old looking Seiko' for a 'catalogue project'. Then the subsequent 'hmm I can take this off your hands for 20 quid if ya want? It is quite old after all...'. :-) I agree, though, that the mission to find out about the 6105 was such a long winded, but enjoyable journey, that in a way it's daunting when I start looking into 6139/8s as they are really desirable to me at the moment. When I do get round to having the money to spend I will enjoy the process...among the many mistakes I'll make! There are thousands of them tucked away in the back of sox's drawers, old boxes in storage lockers and in family owned stores that closed one day and the merchandise is still sitting there waiting to be rediscovered. The majority of my collection has come from such places. One must be diligent in there search for these treasures. |
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Post by seikoholic on Nov 4, 2015 18:42:59 GMT -8
I agree too. One thing I like about vintage Seiko collection is that it's like a treasure hunt. You have to patiently and diligently search through heaps of dirt and junk to find that one gold nugget you've been waiting for. It's especially more exciting when you're able to get a good deal. Getting a solid deal makes a watch just that much more awesome. |
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cobrajet25
Needs a Life!
"Underweared curmudgeon!"
Posts: 3,357
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Post by cobrajet25 on Nov 5, 2015 2:02:49 GMT -8
He said the same thing to me about the 6138-7000 Slide Rule after the digital chronos came out. Good ol' Jonathan. Hope he is up there with a beer and a blonde!  Buying vintage Seikos is much more of a gamble now than it was when I got into the game in 2002. Back then, nobody gave a damn about these watches. I mean, literally. Nobody even gave half a shit. There were no fakes, no aftermarket parts, no 'puppy mills', very few 'Frankens'...even the Filipinos and Thais weren't in the act yet. The reason is simple...there was no real money to be made on them. The supply, at the time, far outstripped the demand. Ebay used to be SWIMMING with watches we now covet. I didn't buy any of my Seikos as 'investments', but I knew there was really only one way prices could go. |
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Nov 5, 2015 4:56:26 GMT -8
I've told this story a zillion times, but when I was a lad in the 80's and early 90's, you could literally swap a mechanical watch for a can of Coke in the schoolyard. Nobody believes me but it's true. I wore my electric blue 7006 dress piece at the time and was called nuts as well as old fashioned. Everyone wanted digitals. Analog watches were old crap, digital was the FUTURE!
I then got my ADEC digi-ana and was a lot more trendy. It's actually a really cool watch. I happened to find a NOS strap for it a few weeks ago.
Most watchmakers here used to turn SEIKO jobs away if they were more than a crystal change or something because they wouldn't be able to make it a profitable job. With a repair bill of say $200, most customers would just junk the watch as it was more than what they paid for it.
These days with the value going up and an added sentimental value, in addition to the stop supply of Swatch parts, they are now looking at SEIKOs very seriously.
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Post by estrickland on Nov 5, 2015 10:25:02 GMT -8
Having migrated to vintage Seiko from the world of vintage Swiss I was blown away at what I could get my hands on for $500. I have now realized that Seiko has to be the most "fiddled" with brand in horological history. If the phrase "buy the seller, not the watch" has ever applied, it's vintage Seiko. I think the hunt for vintage Seiko is much harder then for anything else I have obsessed over. Do you agree? I disagree. I've had a lot of success finding honest, untouched vintage Seiko watches - and by comparison little success with vintage Swiss ones. The market is awash in vintage Rolex, but in that sea try to find a clean, untouched example. Virtually every handset is relumed or filled with some color-matched material. Almost all the cases are polished, so much so that the *degree* of polishing is a selling point (e.g. 'fat lugs'). Most pips if not whole bezel inserts are replacements. I put out a challenge on another site for anyone to show me their Rolex in a condition approaching my contemporary Seiko divers, and I'd give them $100. No takers, but a lot of excuses - 'people wear their Rolex more than their Seiko because they're embarrassed to be wearing a Seiko - so the Rolexes have more wear' - 'Rolex designs are more classic, so they get worn more', blah blah blah. The truth is that Rolex wasn't making investment pieces for the future, they were making tool watches for then, and unfortunately the materials and construction they used don't hold up that well over time. There's honor in that - I respect the tool watch. But as these materials degrade, they get replaced, leaving vintage Swiss the frankenwatch capital of the horological world. By comparison, vintage Seiko holds up really well. Here's a look at an untouched 6105 from 1974:  So too vintage Omega Speedmasters/Seamasters, but to a lesser degree. It's true that there's a lot of garbage to wade through, but among them there are clean, honest Seikos. Much less so with Swiss watches, but I've found a few:   (.. and to a lesser degree)  |
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Post by seikoholic on Nov 5, 2015 10:42:11 GMT -8
I just turned down an Omega Seamaster 300 for $1000. Now I'm wondering if that was a smart thing to have done.
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sdoocms
Is a Permanent Fixture
Carl
Posts: 5,296
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Post by sdoocms on Nov 5, 2015 11:34:47 GMT -8
Perfect condition? Untouched? BAH HUMBUG....I love a beat up old watch that has been resurrected from the great grave yard of watches!  |
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Post by estrickland on Nov 5, 2015 11:45:07 GMT -8
I just turned down an Omega Seamaster 300 for $1000. Now I'm wondering if that was a smart thing to have done. Depends on the 300, but one would have to be in pretty bad shape to be worth only $1k. Maybe send him my email  |
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Post by earthphase on Nov 5, 2015 12:11:48 GMT -8
Having migrated to vintage Seiko from the world of vintage Swiss I was blown away at what I could get my hands on for $500. I have now realized that Seiko has to be the most "fiddled" with brand in horological history. If the phrase "buy the seller, not the watch" has ever applied, it's vintage Seiko. I think the hunt for vintage Seiko is much harder then for anything else I have obsessed over. Do you agree? I disagree. I've had a lot of success finding honest, untouched vintage Seiko watches - and by comparison little success with vintage Swiss ones. The market is awash in vintage Rolex, but in that sea try to find a clean, untouched example. Virtually every handset is relumed or filled with some color-matched material. Almost all the cases are polished, so much so that the *degree* of polishing is a selling point (e.g. 'fat lugs'). Most pips if not whole bezel inserts are replacements. I put out a challenge on another site for anyone to show me their Rolex in a condition approaching my contemporary Seiko divers, and I'd give them $100. No takers, but a lot of excuses - 'people wear their Rolex more than their Seiko because they're embarrassed to be wearing a Seiko - so the Rolexes have more wear' - 'Rolex designs are more classic, so they get worn more', blah blah blah. The truth is that Rolex wasn't making investment pieces for the future, they were making tool watches for then, and unfortunately the materials and construction they used don't hold up that well over time. There's honor in that - I respect the tool watch. But as these materials degrade, they get replaced, leaving vintage Swiss the frankenwatch capital of the horological world. By comparison, vintage Seiko holds up really well. Here's a look at an untouched 6105 from 1974: So too vintage Omega Speedmasters/Seamasters, but to a lesser degree. It's true that there's a lot of garbage to wade through, but among them there are clean, honest Seikos. Much less so with Swiss watches, but I've found a few: (.. and to a lesser degree) I would have a much easier time sourcing an honest example of any of those 3 Swiss examples you just shared over a 6139, 6138, or 62MAS, etc. |
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Post by estrickland on Nov 5, 2015 12:28:18 GMT -8
I would have a much easier time sourcing an honest example of any of those 3 Swiss examples you just shared over a 6139, 6138, or 62MAS, etc. I've seen only a handful of honest examples of these over the last several years, and many, many honest 6138/6139/6217 (in varying condition, but honest). Maybe I'm fishing the wrong waters and/or vice-versa. |
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Post by earthphase on Nov 5, 2015 12:53:06 GMT -8
i think you and I need to hang out
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tritto
WS Benefactor
Posts: 5,880
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Post by tritto on Nov 5, 2015 13:33:51 GMT -8
Maybe the reason vintage Rolexes are all polished to hell is because people did 'look after them'. Seems that if you get a Rolex serviced then you get a case polish and new hands/dial/bezel insert almost as a matter of course. On the other hand, when a vintage Seiko stopped running people just put them in a drawer and forgot about them. There are a lot of bodged Seikos but also plenty that are all original and unpolished. Try finding an all original and never polished vintage Rolex.
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Post by seikoholic on Nov 5, 2015 17:37:57 GMT -8
I just turned down an Omega Seamaster 300 for $1000. Now I'm wondering if that was a smart thing to have done. Depends on the 300, but one would have to be in pretty bad shape to be worth only $1k. Maybe send him my email Turns out I was mis-remembering - it's a Seamaster 120. I'll email you the link. He listed it a month ago but had no bites, and it is still listed as available. |
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