Seiko World Time - Vintage DIGITAL Models

[dapellegrini]

If anyone could do it - it would be you inboost.

There is a later model (non-lemon-colored LCD) A358 on ebay - with a motivated seller - but looks like it is missing buttons etc:

www.ebay.com/itm/154800979664

And here is a sneak peak at another article I am working on - you wouldn't believe (or at least I wouldn't have) just how many PAN AM knock-offs and blatant copies are out there:

seikoworldtime.com/articles/M158-500X-counterfeits

I might start another thread to see how common this is amongst Seiko watches (counterfeit-copies that are not "fakes").

[inboost]

dapellegrini - Whoa I had no idea the design was so commonly ripped off. I guess it hit a chord and the counterfeiters saw good potential in the market share to copy it. It'll be a fascinating read for sure, so thanks in advance for the effort you've put into it!

As for 'dead' battery powered watches, I try to stick to a good rule that unless there is a battery bay shot it's best to move along. When a cell leaks and rots for years and years there's often nothing to save. My Seiko RC-1000 you've seen around was one of those, but the seller happily responded to my request for the internal shot and I was very lucky to have such a nice example look as good as it did outside as it did inside.

Sadly a quartz Pulsar in my collection that my girlfriend gave me after we'd dated a year does not. The plastic bridge crumbled and the coils rotted too. The corrosive environment doesn't need physical contact, the 'atmosphere' of the watch case held in the fumes of the decomposing battery and they attacked everything.

Thankfully She's now my Wife of nearly 26 years and has far outlasted the Pulsar

Inboost

[trilo]

I have noticed that very early digitals with ceramic boards and white circuit boards (similar to green CB material, but white) are harder to restore than the ones with green circuit board. Also ceramic boards tend to snap easily and quite often something other than gold was used for the conducting lines (silver perhaps?). Often even a clean movement doesn't fire up and usually I just give it up unless it is something really special (like Casiotron s14-X1).

Most of the green circuit boards I have worked with have come back to life with a good clean using a fiber glass pen. 

Of course the key is that I think the green circuits tend to be better quality and there for possible to restore. Usually they also have far superior component and build quality. With ceramic boards it boils down to how well they are protected and how the conductive lines have been executed. 

[dapellegrini]

My A239 arrived a little more quickly than I was expecting.  It is going to need a real good cleaning at some point - but is in great shape.  

I'm the second owner:




It's much more slate gray / blue in person....

I am surprised how much smaller the A239 and the A718 are next to the PAN AM.



In the mail at the moment is an M158-5000 (JDM with full city names)

[dapellegrini]

And a needed wrist shot.  I can't get over how dainty this thing is (EDIT: It's 33.5mm wide vs the PAN AM at 37mm wide)








I am still looking for one with a black dial frame, and marked WORLD TIME ALARM under the dial, instead of just WORLD  TIME.

[inboost]

dapellegrini that looks really nice! I've got to stop watching this thread before I end up owning my own copies of all of these

[dapellegrini]

Thanks - they are actually pretty cool - if you are into World Times.

Here are the Casing Guide pages shared by SeikoPsycho

Now I just have to sort through part numbers to figure out what it all means...  A weekend project

[inboost]

For sure. I'm going to have to bug SeikoPsycho for the M158 listings unless you had him post those too?

[dapellegrini]

I requested those and the A358-500X - I think they would all be in the 1979 book.

[dapellegrini]

Lots of progress this weekend with these digital watches.

First, I have reorganized the website into Generations (Mechanical, Digital, Quartz Analog) and now refer to the models within a generation as "Series".  So the M158 is the Digital Generation, Series 1, the A358 is Digital Generation, Series 2, etc.

There are now tools for the digital watches, like there have been for the mechanicals:



This is a work in progress, as I collect more image data, and find the time to study through it.  Currently 121 watches cataloged - most added this weekend.

Here's where the stats are at right now:

[dapellegrini]

There are some cool insights getting the data parsed out like this... For instance, with the A239 some cases say WORLD TIME while others say WORLD TIMER ALARM.  Ends up the 5020 and 502A all say WORLD TIME, and the 5000, 5009 and 5010 all say WORLD TIMER ALARM.  They also seem to have been produced in the same time period. 


(Lots) more to come...

[inboost]

dapellegrini - well done! I love it when data collected delivers the bigger picture like this. I'm certainly looking forward to the broken M158-5009 en route to me to arrive so I can start fiddling with it.

Inboost

[dapellegrini]

Also of interest - an emerging trend is that these digital watches were not produced in long runs.  Currently the data shows:

M158 - April 1977 - January 1979 - (21 months)
A358 - April 1979 - February 1980 - (11 months)
A239 - July 1979 - August 1980 - (13 months)
A708 - May 1984 - September 1988 - (52 months)
A718 - February 1984 - July 1984 - (6 months)

I think the data is going to evolve on the A358, A708 and A718, but the M158 and A239 are likely going to stick in about these ranges...

[dapellegrini]

And then there were 4 ....









Top row, missing 3 (out for service) - 6217-6010 Asian games, 6117-6010 black and silver dials.  The 6117-640X's are on the winder...
Bottom row, missing 1 (JDM M158-5000 in the mail)...  plus an A358 (also in the mail), digital are going to need their own box.

Side note - I see in the sunlight I got a bunch of lint / dust somehow between the crystal and the dial frame on the A239 - I guess I will need to really do the replacement crystal job next on that one to clean it up correctly.  

[dapellegrini]

A few other maintenance items that might be helpful for others reading this thread in the future:

Replacement batteries:

M158 - SR1130W or 389
A239 - SR927W or 395
A358 - SR1120W or 391
A708 - CR2016
A718 - CR2016

I've ordered a few replacement battery hatch gaskets - hoping to figure out the dimensions and post them here.  Finding original parts is hard, and expensive - and I haven't found anywhere that just lists the gasket sizes needed by model.

ALSO, from the casing guides, here are the correct bracelets, etc:

(SS=Stainless Steel, SGP=Gold Plated)

M158-5009:
- Correct SS Bracelet Z-129
- Correct SGP Bracelet Z-129

A358-5000:
- Correct SS Bracelet Z-309 - Black and White Dial Frames
- Correct SGP Bracelet Z-309 - Black Dial Frame

A358-5009:

- Correct SS Bracelet B-487 - White Dial Frame (apparently no Black Frame on this model!)
- Correct SGP Bracelet B-487 - Black Dial Frame

A239-5000:
- Correct SS Bracelet Z-330 - Black Dial Frame, Correct Map LCD: Black
- Correct SGP Bracelet Z-330 - Brown Dial Frame, Correct Map LCD: Red

A239-5009:
- Correct SS Bracelet Z-330 - Black Dial Frame, Correct Map LCD: Black
- Correct SGP Bracelet Z-330 - Brown Dial Frame, Correct Map LCD: Red

A239-5010:
- Correct SS Bracelet Z-330 - Blue Dial Frame
- Correct Map LCD: Green


And the missing ones I have not yet seen casing guides for, but based on image data collected to date:

M158-5000
- Correct SS Bracelet XAS020
- No SGP version

A239-502A
- Correct SS Bracelet GA950 - Blue Dial Frame, Correct Map LCD: Black
- No SGP version

A239-5020
- Correct SS Bracelet GA950 or XGA950L - Black Dial Frame, Correct Map LCD: Black
- Correct SGP Bracelet GA04A - Brown Dial Frame, Correct Map LCD: Red

A708-5000
- Correct SS Bracelet YA24A - Black Dial Frame
- Correct SGP Bracelet YA23A(-E) - Gilt Dial Frame

A718-5010
- No clue (yet)

A718-5030
- Correct SS Bracelet G1106 - Black Dial Frame
- Correct SGP Bracelet G1106 - Gilt Dial Frame

[scubarob99]

I have two of these guys. Very comfy. One runs, but must be a bad connection somewhere- display dies after 5 minutes
(At least I know it's not fried) funny thing, two different bracelets that look identical, one feels more sturdy and heavier than the other.

Rob

Attachments:

[scubarob99]

Both watches are 79. April and May.
You can clearly see the difference with the bracelets.
One is longer and has a different clasp.
They 'lay' differently, and have a different code.

Rob

[dapellegrini]

Excellent A358's scubarob99 - thank you for the bracelet photos!

Can you confirm the following on each:
 - Exact model (5000 or 5009)
 - The small print on the bottom of the dial frame

One dial frame has white contrasting background color behind the functions (LIGHT, MODE etc).  The other dial frame uses a darker gray color instead.  Perhaps you have a 5000 and a 5009 there?

[inboost]

This is becoming a bit of an obsession! I've just bought my second junker and hope to turn it into a rose with some TLC. If I feel it's going to live through a revival I'll certainly post about it!

[dapellegrini]

Squinting my eyes a bit it does look like you have a 5000 and a 5009.  That would explain the different dial frames and bracelets and give me a nice new piece of information to prove out. 

If these are both original setups, then:

 - The NA market 5009 had a B487 bracelet and the gray dial frame is the white background color behind the functions (LIGHT, MODE, etc)
 - The Intl market 5000 had a XAS110L bracelet and the gray dial frame is the darker gray background color behind the functions (LIGHT, MODE, etc)