Seiko Regatta AM kits

[appumaster]

So these have hit the markets here 😑
Bracelet, hands, stem and crown all complete... Just pop in a movement and ready to go.

I guess the real risk is well priced but deliberately aged fakes.

[leffemonster]

I’ve lost count of how many of these I’ve seen on ebay over the past couple of years. They’ve clearly been around in the UK for quite a while.

[SeikoSoMatic]

Seikosis has been hawking parts for these for years. 

[appumaster]

Feb 28, 2024 0:18:44 GMT -8 SeikoSoMatic said:

Seikosis has been hawking parts for these for years. 

Yes... These are full complete kits from Hongkong. Just needs a movement, everything else is there. The case, bezel, caseback all are fresh manufacture.

[Fergus]

ebay, Gumtree, Vinted and others are regular haunts for these.

Now that ebay uses AI to scan reported listings they will sail through untouched.

Their reply after I reported a CLEAR violation of the rules.

Hello ~~~~~~~~~,


Thanks again for reporting the listing(s) you found.



What happened:

We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy.

This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence.

[SeikoSoMatic]

This cheapens the model for those who have originals.😕
I discovered a telltale sign of the fakes quite a while ago (which may or may not have been addressed by the fakers in the meantime), back when I had the real thing - - but I won't reveal it here. 😉

[leffemonster]

Feb 28, 2024 1:21:45 GMT -8 Fergus said:

ebay, Gumtree, Vinted and others are regular haunts for these.

Now that ebay uses AI to scan reported listings they will sail through untouched.

Their reply after I reported a CLEAR violation of the rules.

Hello ~~~~~~~~~,


Thanks again for reporting the listing(s) you found.



What happened:

We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy.

This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence.

…and would no doubt also pass their “authenticity guarantee”.

[appumaster]

Feb 28, 2024 4:58:07 GMT -8 leffemonster said:

Feb 28, 2024 1:21:45 GMT -8 Fergus said:

ebay, Gumtree, Vinted and others are regular haunts for these.

Now that ebay uses AI to scan reported listings they will sail through untouched.

Their reply after I reported a CLEAR violation of the rules.

Hello ~~~~~~~~~,


Thanks again for reporting the listing(s) you found.



What happened:

We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy.

This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence.

…and would no doubt also pass their “authenticity guarantee”.

Not defending them or anything but it's difficult to authenticate watches with photographs. Even us nuts need detailed Hi-Res pics from multiple angles to be hesitantly sure.
I've encountered aftermarket dials that has deliberately aged lume, replaced applied logos etc.. so it's really tough. Chrono24 has a system where if a watch is reported as fake they immediately suspend the listing asking for invoice with serial number and authenticity certificate from manufacturer.

[SeikoSoMatic]

Feb 28, 2024 5:51:10 GMT -8 appumaster said:

Feb 28, 2024 4:58:07 GMT -8 leffemonster said:

…and would no doubt also pass their “authenticity guarantee”.

Not defending them or anything but it's difficult to authenticate watches with photographs. Even us nuts need detailed Hi-Res pics from multiple angles to be hesitantly sure.
I've encountered aftermarket dials that has deliberately aged lume, replaced applied logos etc.. so it's really tough. Chrono24 has a system where if a watch is reported as fake they immediately suspend the listing asking for invoice with serial number and authenticity certificate from manufacturer.

😂🤣

[HiBeat]

appumaster thank you for posting these new entries into the world of instant vintage, can we call that Instint-age ? InVintage? InStintVint?   

A while back I posted about a faked old dial I got on a yellow Pogue that frankly took a long time to doctor up to look like authentic patina.  I have to say, like it or not, it looks really great on the wrist.   When I wear it I know no one here or any real Pogue WIS for that matter will see it so what harm is there  if I enjoy it?  The only thing I want to stress is that when offered for sale integrity trumps many hundreds of extra bucks and must be disclosed and you can be darn sure I won't ever pass it off as a genuine dial.

So if a full kit just needing a new NH movement or a working vintage movement can give a guy a nice wear so long as he never sells it as an original I think we need to accept this as a matter of fact of life in year 2024 in the Seiko hobby.   It's not right to counterfeit a logo dial or such but it is clear Seiko does not care to protect their logo or IP so why should we take that on for them ?

[HiBeat]

Feb 28, 2024 4:15:42 GMT -8 SeikoSoMatic said:

This cheapens the model for those who have originals.😕

I discovered a telltale sign of the fakes quite a while ago (which may or may not have been addressed by the fakers in the meantime), back when I had the real thing - - but I won't reveal it here. 😉

I'm not sure how you mean 'cheapens' but in terms of selling price, I do not think it lowers the price at all.  All the other models that are faked (6309-7049, 6105 divers, Pogues, etc.) go up when it is clear that you are selling a 100% genuine article.   The fakes drive market demand for the real ones. 

[appumaster]

Feb 28, 2024 11:39:42 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

appumaster thank you for posting these new entries into the world of instant vintage, can we call that Instint-age ? InVintage? InStintVint?   

A while back I posted about a faked old ddial I got on a yellow Pogue that frankly took a long time to doctor up to look like authentic patina.  I have to say like it or not it looks really great on the wrist.   When I wear it I know no onehere or any real Pogue WIS for that matter will see it so what harm is there  if I enjoy it?  The only thing I want to stress is that when offered for sale integrity trumps a many hundreds of extra bucks and must be disclosed and yuo can be darn sure I won't ever pass it off as a genuine dial.

So if a full kit just needing a new NH movement or a working vintage movement can give a guy a nice wear so long as he never sells it as an original I think we need to accept this as a matter of fact of life in year 2024 in the Seiko hobby.   It's not right to counterfeit a logo dial or such but it is clear Seiko does not care to protect their logo or IP so why should we take that on for them ?

That's what I've told others too... I am absolutely happy with an aftermarket assembly on mine or anyone else's wrist. The designs are amazing and as they're no longer available new (unless reissued) it's fair game; logo trademark and IP problems aside....This is exactly what the Chinese homages are profiting from.

What angers me is the unscrupulous seller who wants to make a chunk of dough by duping someone else. If he's getting full price for aftermarket goods after complete disclosure, that's between him and the buyer.

However it's bad when someone is outrightly cheated by being sold an aftermarket kit as an original vintage. There's not much that can be done about it except maybe call them out when we see them or educate others by spreading information.

Unfortunately in my experience, I haven't seen either of those steps being kindly taken to by the general public (present company excluded ofcourse 😄) so I've stopped giving unasked for advice.

[appumaster]

Feb 28, 2024 11:44:56 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

Feb 28, 2024 4:15:42 GMT -8 SeikoSoMatic said:

This cheapens the model for those who have originals.😕

I discovered a telltale sign of the fakes quite a while ago (which may or may not have been addressed by the fakers in the meantime), back when I had the real thing - - but I won't reveal it here. 😉

I'm not sure how you mean 'cheapens' but in terms of selling price, I do not think it lowers the price at all.  All the other models that are faked (6309-7049, 6105 divers, Pogues, etc.) go up when it is clear that you are selling a 100% genuine article.   The fakes drive market demand for the real ones. 

This was going to be my answer too.... The prices for genuine vintage watches immediately go up after fakes come out in the market.

That's somewhat good for those who already have those models but very bad for newer collectors....

On the whole therefore it's detrimental because if the newcomers get cheated once, they'll get out of the vintage game and run after shiny new pieces and we won't make new friends 🫤

[SeikoSoMatic]

Feb 28, 2024 11:44:56 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

Feb 28, 2024 4:15:42 GMT -8 SeikoSoMatic said:

This cheapens the model for those who have originals.😕

I discovered a telltale sign of the fakes quite a while ago (which may or may not have been addressed by the fakers in the meantime), back when I had the real thing - - but I won't reveal it here. 😉

I'm not sure how you mean 'cheapens' but in terms of selling price, I do not think it lowers the price at all.  All the other models that are faked (6309-7049, 6105 divers, Pogues, etc.) go up when it is clear that you are selling a 100% genuine article.   The fakes drive market demand for the real ones. 

I didn't mean it in a monetary sense.
I meant, you are proud to have an original of what "used to be" a pretty rare vintage watch on your wrist.
Then you see half a dozen other owners (on forums, of course 😉) of what looks to the rest of the world like the same watch.
It would reduce the enjoyment for me.
Like driving a '64 Mustang and seeing "remakes" all over the place.
And (as the politicians say), make no mistake - - these are not homages. 

[Fergus]

Feb 28, 2024 5:51:10 GMT -8 appumaster said:

Feb 28, 2024 4:58:07 GMT -8 leffemonster said:

…and would no doubt also pass their “authenticity guarantee”.

Not defending them or anything but it's difficult to authenticate watches with photographs. Even us nuts need detailed Hi-Res pics from multiple angles to be hesitantly sure.
I've encountered aftermarket dials that has deliberately aged lume, replaced applied logos etc.. so it's really tough. Chrono24 has a system where if a watch is reported as fake they immediately suspend the listing asking for invoice with serial number and authenticity certificate from manufacturer.

My report was based on wording and not pictures. EBay does not permit links to webs and the listing had a link in its title of all places.

Had a human bean looked it would have been spotted.

Not wishing to divert this topic but how will AI handle this worthless Chinese fake.