Old Member, New User- My Unique Laurel

[manlodan]

Hello! I have been registered to this forums for some time now, but I haven’t posted it yet for some reason. I live in Japan and collect mostly vintage Seikos, so I guess I should start exploring what this page has to offer!

I mostly focus on 1960s Seikos, but this is my most recent acquisition- a “1913” Laurel with a shakudo case. This one is something of a grail for me, as they are about as rare a Seiko as you can get. I’m sure many of you are aware of the silver cased Laurels, and some people might even have seen a gold one, but the shakudo Laurels are another beast entirely. They did not list them in any catalogues that I have seen, and the only other example I know to exist is in the Seiko Museum archives in Ginza, though I believe they have a silver case on display.

Shakudo, if you aren’t aware, is a gold and copper alloy that has been traditionally used in Japanese luxury goods for hundreds of years. It is usually about 95% copper and 5% gold, which is then immediately oxidized with a special solution by the craftsman to achieve this flat black finish. You can find in it all manner of jewelry, as well as tsuba (decorative guard) of katana. 

Here are the photos from the listing:







I was very impressed by the dial especially; not a crack or blemish in sight. I noticed the the employee ID number of person who built this watch (visible above the balance wheel) is #1!! The case also presents nicely, with some patina where the oxide has worn on the sides and lugs. There were two problems that stood out to me though:

First, the crown is wrong, and both the design and the color clash dramatically with the rest of the watch. Because of that, I installed a copper onion-style crown I already had. It’s not original either, but I suspect the chances of me finding a shakudo crown are pretty much zero.

Second is the bottom lug. As you can see, the top lug is the original shakudo, but the bottom has been replaced with a poorly shaped brass facsimile. The color is way off, the wire is too thick, and there is no definition to speak of in the corners. The lug is also way taller than the real one, making it a real eyesore. I managed to find the exact same diameter wire in copper from the local 100-yen shop, and after working about 10 lengths with some fine-tipped jewelry pliers, I managed to get a halfway decent lug out of it. The color is still not a perfect match, but considering the case is 95% copper it’s not quite as noticeable. I’ll keep an eye out for shakudo wire, but once again, I’m not holding my breath on that one lol.

I also needed to get my hands on a strap. Luckily I have a good relationship with an old school Japanese watchmaker in my area, and he had an 8mm Italian-made vintage Elmitex in his old stock. The vintage Elmitex Milanese mesh bands are not soldered on the back of the endlink, making it possible to bend the metal up and fit it to a wire lug. Unfortunately he only had a stainless steel one, but I’m researching some ways to darken the steel- perhaps with a chemical oxidizing solution or gun blue.. not sure where I can find that in Japan though.

Here are my results so far:






What do you think? What else would you do to it? Do you have any recommendations for straps or bracelets? Let me know!

[l10n3l]

This is the kind of story I love. Thanks a lot for sharing.
As far as I'm concerned I wouldn't even dare to think I could restore such a watch. Obviously, you know much on that matter and unfortunately I have no advice to give.

[inboost]

manlodan that's a fantastic find and such a wonder to behold on so many levels! Congratulations on the find and the ongoing effort to restore it to a more original condition.

The crown could be made darker with some oxidation solutions, I bet saldog could recommend something. I know that if it were brass a 'cold bluing' solution could make it very dark if not black so that might be helpful as an avenue. The one I like is by an American supply house so I'm not so sure it will be easy to come by in Japan. It's a thick creme instead of a watery solution so easier to keep in place. Repeated burnishing with 0000 steel wool while keeping it hot (+60°C) works best.

As for the stainless steel blackening, this is a more difficult task at home. Depending on the grade, most stainless steel is not affected by traditional cold blueing solutions found at home (it's corrosion resistant). The method of applying a 'Black Oxide' coating would need to be explored to see if a home application is possible without significant investment.

Welcome to our forum, it's great to have another member to share with!

Inboost

[saldog]

Probably the most durable black coating for stainless would be PVD (physical vapor deposition), but that is not something that could easily be done at home as it is very specialized and requires expensive materials and equipment.

Black oxide coating can be done at home with a solution that is intended for the substrate material, in this case, I assume stainless steel. It is very important that the surface is thoroughly cleaned and dried.

Here is a product that might work.

I haven't done this myself before, but I have used black oxide coating for steel parts at work for rust inhibition. If you look at a typical steel fastener from the hardware store like a drywall screw, that is what a black oxide coating looks like.

There are some caveats. The coating is flat and dull. It is only mildly scratch-resistant, and scratches will reveal shiny metal underneath. For a mesh bracelet, the chain links may create wear spots and begin to show shiny metal, which may detract from the look. Nooks and crannies may not get coated well and the shiny substrate may show up in those places. The blackened surface may get "blotchy" over time as it accumulates sweat and oily films. It should be safe to gently wash in soap and warm water occasionally to clean these spots off, but I would stay away from anything abrasive like a scrub brush. A very soft toothbrush may be ok. I'm not sure about ultrasonic cleaning, but I would stay away from that.

I recommend finding a similar material to experiment with before trying it out on something of value.

Stainless doesn't really like to be coated with anything. Even PVD coatings eventually wear off at the high contact points and we've all seen how well gold plating holds up on it. But for a precious heirloom, we are not talking about wearing it everyday, out in harm's way. For that use case, I think a black oxide coating is worth a look. It might make a new part look old, which is maybe what you're going for.

[manlodan]

Jun 3, 2024 3:21:11 GMT -8 l10n3l said:

This is the kind of story I love. Thanks a lot for sharing.
As far as I'm concerned I wouldn't even dare to think I could restore such a watch. Obviously, you know much on that matter and unfortunately I have no advice to give.

Thanks for your vote of confidence!

I will be the first to admit I know little to nothing XD I just do my best to work in the least aggressive ways possible and preserve what’s there. There’s really no guides for this stuff. I don’t intend to get it to museum condition, as I ultimately plan to wear the watch. Not every day of course, but maybe once every couple weeks.

[manlodan]

Jun 3, 2024 3:44:59 GMT -8 inboost said:

manlodan that's a fantastic find and such a wonder to behold on so many levels! Congratulations on the find and the ongoing effort to restore it to a more original condition.

The crown could be made darker with some oxidation solutions, I bet saldog could recommend something. I know that if it were brass a 'cold bluing' solution could make it very dark if not black so that might be helpful as an avenue. The one I like is by an American supply house so I'm not so sure it will be easy to come by in Japan. It's a thick creme instead of a watery solution so easier to keep in place. Repeated burnishing with 0000 steel wool while keeping it hot (+60°C) works best.

As for the stainless steel blackening, this is a more difficult task at home. Depending on the grade, most stainless steel is not affected by traditional cold blueing solutions found at home (it's corrosion resistant). The method of applying a 'Black Oxide' coating would need to be explored to see if a home application is possible without significant investment.

Welcome to our forum, it's great to have another member to share with!

Inboost

Thanks! I plan to leave the crown the raw color for now, as I don’t actually know whether or not it’s really copper, and I think its patina matches well with the rest of the case. The bracelet is definitely going to be a tough one. It seems like black oxide might me the only route for this bracelet, though I’m toying with the idea of buying a bonklip and heat blackening it. Obviously heat treatment isn’t an option on the mesh though. Thanks for your input!

[manlodan]

Jun 3, 2024 13:07:27 GMT -8 saldog said:

Probably the most durable black coating for stainless would be PVD (physical vapor deposition), but that is not something that could easily be done at home as it is very specialized and requires expensive materials and equipment.

Black oxide coating can be done at home with a solution that is intended for the substrate material, in this case, I assume stainless steel. It is very important that the surface is thoroughly cleaned and dried.

Here is a product that might work.

I haven't done this myself before, but I have used black oxide coating for steel parts at work for rust inhibition. If you look at a typical steel fastener from the hardware store like a drywall screw, that is what a black oxide coating looks like.

There are some caveats. The coating is flat and dull. It is only mildly scratch-resistant, and scratches will reveal shiny metal underneath. For a mesh bracelet, the chain links may create wear spots and begin to show shiny metal, which may detract from the look. Nooks and crannies may not get coated well and the shiny substrate may show up in those places. The blackened surface may get "blotchy" over time as it accumulates sweat and oily films. It should be safe to gently wash in soap and warm water occasionally to clean these spots off, but I would stay away from anything abrasive like a scrub brush. A very soft toothbrush may be ok. I'm not sure about ultrasonic cleaning, but I would stay away from that.

I recommend finding a similar material to experiment with before trying it out on something of value.

Stainless doesn't really like to be coated with anything. Even PVD coatings eventually wear off at the high contact points and we've all seen how well gold plating holds up on it. But for a precious heirloom, we are not talking about wearing it everyday, out in harm's way. For that use case, I think a black oxide coating is worth a look. It might make a new part look old, which is maybe what you're going for.

Thanks for the suggestions!

It seems that the more I look into it, the less viable at-home blackening is going to be for the bracelet. I know that they also made black versions of these bracelets, so I might be better served to hold out for one of those.

If I do experiment with this one, it only cost me 2000 yen (about 12USD), so it’s not the end of the world. But I’m going to do my best to tolerate the steel for now while I find a leather strap. There’s a witness mark on the back from a 8-10mm one-piece leather strap, probably a bund, but good ones seem to be impossible to find these days. Any recommendations there?

[saldog]

manlodan , I think a bund is a great idea. I think that's the kind of strap that lots of people wore trench watches on back in the day. Check out this website.

It would be hard to find a strap narrow enough, but you could probably make new wire ends to fit something more standard, like an 18". Or you could simply modify the leather with a couple of notches or even special order a strap made for the watch.

I bet tritto could make a recommendation since he hand makes straps. The ones I've seen of his would work perfectly on the right bund.

I found lots of links to some great straps. Here is one:

[tritto]

By coincidence, I was in the Seiko Museum in Ginza a few days ago and I may just have taken a photo of the Laurel you speak of. I can't say if this is the silver example or like yours.

[manlodan]

Jun 4, 2024 0:20:22 GMT -8 tritto said:

By coincidence, I was in the Seiko Museum in Ginza a few days ago and I may just have taken a photo of the Laurel you speak of. I can't say if this is the silver example or like yours.

Very cool! That one is silver though. You can see that it's the dark grey of tarnished silver. It's almost black, but not quite. The oxide coating on shakudo is absolutely pitch black. Also, every photo I've seen of their shakudo model is on a light brown two-piece suede strap. Interestingly, while most people (Seiko included) feature these models on a bund, the original catalogues don't show them as an option, instead displaying a soldered-on chain bracelet, a leather one-piece, or a two-piece leather strap.