Nothing like some documentation - look for the 6139-6000

[seikoholic]

Just won this on eBay.  Early 70s brochure for some non-Seiko distribution company showing what appears to mostly be JDM models.  Interesting to see some omissions, but I bought it because of one model included. Look at the 2nd picture, bottom row, third from right: a 6139-6000 showing the silver or gold dial with the black indicator ring.  Bonus: it's on a chiclet bracelet.  I've never seen this piece of documentation before.  Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I haven't seen it.  The shipping info talks about customs duties, U.S. import duties, and shipping to APO locations.  Who (what customer base) was this brochure for?

Seller's shots.  When it comes in, I'll do high-res scans for our archives.

imgur.com/a/fRgNF for enlarged looks

[SeikoPsycho]

Nice find!
 It's a little hard to tell color from the photo but it looks more like a yellow dial 6139. If you compare the color to the silver dial rally, just above and to the right, It doesn't appear to be the same color.

After having a second look with more time on mine hands I see it's parked between two other silver dial 6139's. I'm still leaning towards yellow, but regardless, this will be the first Ad that has surfaced showing either variation.

Looking forward to your findings..........

[estrickland]

I think it's silver dialed - they came with black rotating inner bezels - while the yellow came with matching yellow inner bezels.
Rare birds.

[cobrajet25]

Aug 24, 2014 20:50:55 GMT -8 estrickland said:

I think it's silver dialed - they came with black rotating inner bezels - while the yellow came with matching yellow inner bezels.
Rare birds.

There is some debate about this.  Some insist that they bought the yellow dial with the black inner rotating ring new.  It could be a regional thing?  Most seem to come from the neighborhood of Australia.

Nice score, Spencer!  Never seen this one before!

[cannop]

I bought a yellow dial black inner bezel 6139-6005 from the original owner who purchased it in Australia, it had never been serviced or even had the back off according to the seller. 

[seikoholic]

I have owned gold/black combos that clearly looked original, and the last time this debate came up some guys showed up with examples they'd bought from the original owners.  I don't doubt the existence of the 6139-6002 gold/black.  All the ones I've seen personally were -6002's except for one that was a 6139-6001, now belonging to a friend of Saul's.  

The number on the one listed above is 6139-6000.  I can't see if there's dial text, so I don't know if it's a proof / resist / no-text.  It's got dial text, and I swear I see a hint of a notched case, so I'd say it's a proof-marked example, which would be right for the early chiclet bracelet.

Some of the other models with dial text all appear to be JDM variants, such as the Tokei Zara.  The 6105 has the early long sweep hand.  

All of this is made more interesting by the fact that the pamphlet is listed as the "September 30th, 1972 edition".  Seems like this company was selling some out-of-date models.  I wonder if they were a closeout specialist, buying older models at a discount.  Regardless, this closes the case on whether the black indicator rings ever went with the non-black / blue dials.  I know we've seen one other piece of documentation, that little yellow brochure that someone found on eBay, but this is undeniable - for both that combination, and the chiclet bracelet.

[Rod]

Well the two world timers are great! The black dialled with white rotating ring 6117 is a bonus. As i was just finishing typing up the rest of the world timer thread, these would help answer a few questions i had!

[seikoholic]

Aug 25, 2014 14:55:59 GMT -8 Rod said:

Well the two world timers are great! The black dialled with white rotating ring 6117 is a bonus. As i was just finishing typing up the rest of the world timer thread, these would help answer a few questions i had!

cool!  Is that not a known variant or something?

[Rod]

I have seen them before and believed was that it was just a movement/dial swap. I have until now never seen any proof that it was a factory model! The nissue is that the all use the same coding 6117-640x, now i have seen, black dials with white rings, white dials with black rings, white dials with gold rings and finally the gold dials with white ring :banghead:makes research hard.

All the evidence I have shows that there was only the, black dial and black rotating ring, the white/white version and the gold version. Which now means, I will have to start hunting down the catalogue photos etc.

Thanks for sharing

[cobrajet25]

I always assumed that the black dial/white ring variant was legit because when the black dial is paired with the black ring, the 24-hour track at the outside of the dial is orange.

On the black dial/white ring version, it is white.  Nice to see it in print, though.  I think this is the first print record we have of this version.

[Rod]

Aug 26, 2014 0:37:06 GMT -8 cobrajet25 said:

I always assumed that the black dial/white ring variant was legit because when the black dial is paired with the black ring, the 24-hour track at the outside of the dial is orange.

On the black dial/white ring version, it is white.  Nice to see it in print, though.  I think this is the first print record we have of this version.

To true,  the dial's 24hr track being white goes a long way to indicating that there was a genuine version. The issue, as we've just learnt is that the evidence was lacking and i'd like to at least have seen some form of document from the period that supported this. Now I have I'll be on the hunt for more. 

The issue with these is much like the Bellmatic although not as prolific, you can swap parts to suit your end game

Sorry for the highjack 

[Groundhog66]

The white dial/black ring, is a really nice looking piece.

[dad-the-diver]

Aug 25, 2014 23:08:29 GMT -8 Rod said:

I have seen them before and believed was that it was just a movement/dial swap. I have until now never seen any proof that it was a factory model! The nissue is that the all use the same coding 6117-640x, now i have seen, black dials with white rings, white dials with black rings, white dials with gold rings and finally the gold dials with white ring :banghead:makes research hard.

All the evidence I have shows that there was only the, black dial and black rotating ring, the white/white version and the gold version. Which now means, I will have to start hunting down the catalogue photos etc.

Thanks for sharing

......................And I only like divers!

[Adrian-VTA]

Geday, I have the black (gunmetal) dial with white ring, and it is 100% original. So I can confirm for you that is a legit combo, as for the others...who knows.

Aug 25, 2014 23:08:29 GMT -8 Rod said:

I have seen them before and believed was that it was just a movement/dial swap. I have until now never seen any proof that it was a factory model! The nissue is that the all use the same coding 6117-640x, now i have seen, black dials with white rings, white dials with black rings, white dials with gold rings and finally the gold dials with white ring :banghead:makes research hard.

All the evidence I have shows that there was only the, black dial and black rotating ring, the white/white version and the gold version. Which now means, I will have to start hunting down the catalogue photos etc.

Thanks for sharing

[Rod]

Aug 27, 2014 3:13:07 GMT -8 Adrian-VTA said:

Geday, I have the black (gunmetal) dial with white ring, and it is 100% original. So I can confirm for you that is a legit combo, as for the others...who knows.

That's great, nice watch by the way . Can you post a case back shot and if posable a close up of the dial code? I'm trying to work out the year these were made and if they have a unique country code.

Rod

[Adrian-VTA]

Sure can. I know the provenance of this piece as I purchased it from the original owner. It has lived all of it's life in Australia, and a lot of that in a drawer.

As you guys are aware, some of the pieces that were sold here have some interesting variations (i.e. the yellow dialled, black ringed 6139-6002, and the silver 6139-6002). On another note. I can confirm WITHOUT A DOUBT the yellow dialled 6139-6002 with a black ring was sold here as a retail model because my dad had one. He bought it new, in 1976 I believe, from a major jeweller on the high street here. Further proof is that he is wearing it in his wedding photos from 1978. So the legend is absolutely true. In fact, screw it, I'll post a photo. You'll note as well it has the oval president bracelet, which is on most pieces sold here. I think this is the smoking gun you are looking for, someone in the time period, wearing the thing, purchased from new.

Now as far as I'm aware, you don't find these things outside of Australia, so I'd say they were assembled by SEIKO Australia, who did for a while have a service centre in the eastern states. In fact, one of the renowned watchmakers in the scene, who you would all know, was the service manager.



Anyway, here's those pics!

Aug 27, 2014 5:11:09 GMT -8 Rod said:

Aug 27, 2014 3:13:07 GMT -8 Adrian-VTA said:

That's great, nice watch by the way . Can you post a case back shot and if posable a close up of the dial code? I'm trying to work out the year these were made and if they have a unique country code.

Rod

[Rod]

Aug 27, 2014 16:36:51 GMT -8 Adrian-VTA said:

Sure can. I know the provenance of this piece as I purchased it from the original owner. It has lived all of it's life in Australia, and a lot of that in a drawer.

As you guys are aware, some of the pieces that were sold here have some interesting variations (i.e. the yellow dialled, black ringed 6139-6002, and the silver 6139-6002). On another note. I can confirm WITHOUT A DOUBT the yellow dialled 6139-6002 with a black ring was sold here as a retail model because my dad had one. He bought it new, in 1976 I believe, from a major jeweller on the high street here. Further proof is that he is wearing it in his wedding photos from 1978. So the legend is absolutely true. In fact, screw it, I'll post a photo. You'll note as well it has the oval president bracelet, which is on most pieces sold here. I think this is the smoking gun you are looking for, someone in the time period, wearing the thing, purchased from new.

Now as far as I'm aware, you don't find these things outside of Australia, so I'd say they were assembled by SEIKO Australia, who did for a while have a service centre in the eastern states. In fact, one of the renowned watchmakers in the scene, who you would all know, was the service manager.



Anyway, here's those pics!

Aug 27, 2014 5:11:09 GMT -8 Rod said:

That's great, nice watch by the way . Can you post a case back shot and if posable a close up of the dial code? I'm trying to work out the year these were made and if they have a unique country code.

Rod

Thanks for the photos, more than i could have asked for! Do you mind if I use them for reference photo's and post them on the forum? 

Rod

[seikoholic]

It's super late but I did get the thing today, and I took some shots.  I'll post them here tomorrow, but in the meantime if you want to look through on your own, here's a photo album:


imgur.com/a/oMtlO

[Adrian-VTA]

Go for it, we've been pondering this question way too long. Ever since I've been active in the scene at least and that began 2009.

So that leaves us with possible combos of (If I'm correct) -

YELLOW/YELLOW
YELLOW/BLACK
BLUE/BLUE
BLUE/BLACK
SILVER/BLACK

And bracelet options of -

Chiclet
H link thin gauge steel
H link non tapered
H link tapered
Oval "fishident"
Probable 70's dealer fitted leather or rubber straps

Anything else is a fake.

Aug 27, 2014 21:03:04 GMT -8 Rod said:

Aug 27, 2014 16:36:51 GMT -8 Adrian-VTA said:

Thanks for the photos, more than i could have asked for! Do you mind if I use them for reference photo's and post them on the forum? 

Rod

[Adrian-VTA]

Thanks Spencer, best thing I've seen all week!

Aug 27, 2014 21:55:21 GMT -8 seikoholic said:

It's super late but I did get the thing today, and I took some shots.  I'll post them here tomorrow, but in the meantime if you want to look through on your own, here's a photo album:


imgur.com/a/oMtlO