Any theories on what this watch is?

[seikoholic]

I've got a watch lot incoming.  I bought it for something else, but it included a watch I can't quite ID.

[cd_god]

Crown at 3:45 and date only is 7005.

Looks like a Timex next to it.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2014 19:23:20 GMT -8 cd_god said:

Crown at 3:45 and date only is 7005.

Looks like a Timex next to it.

The 7005 has a 4:00 crown so it isn't that. The only date with 3:18 crown I can think of is the 7s25 but this watch looks pre-7sxx.

[SeikoPsycho]

I'd say it's a 7009-8100. I had one some time ago. Probably should have held on to it. Kinda liked the faceted crystal.
Just noticed, mine has a day-date where yours has just a date.

[cobrajet25]

I have a very similar watch, which is also a 7009.  It is from 1978, and appears to have a crown at about 3:18.  Interestingly, the facets on this crystal are on the underside...the outer portion of the crystal is smooth.  It came to me in a small lot of watches I got a little while ago, and is actually a nice little runner. 

With the ocean blue dial, gold accents, and red "5" badge, it's really a pretty little watch.

The movement itself is marked in the normal way (Seiko, 7009, 17j, Japan), but the rotor is marked "Bellarno Int. Ltd.", and this is also somewhat crudely inscribed on the inside of the caseback.

Must be an importer or wholesaler?

Anyway, your watch must be very similar to Tom's and mine, and is from the '70s.  That disco-ball crystal is a dead giveaway.

[HiBeat]

Crown at 3:18?  That rules out the 6105's that had that style case shape.

[seikoholic]

I associate the date-only 7005s with a 3 o'clock crown.  7006's are day/date at 3 o'clock.  7009's are day/date, crown at 3:45 or whatever.  7002s are date-only, 4 o'clock crown.  I'm not aware of a date-only version of the 7S movements.  I could be wrong, don't think I'm making a "this is the way it is" statement.  It's just my mental filing system for these movements.

This is a 3:45 (or whatever) crown, date-only, Daini-produced watch.   I don't know if it has gold accents or if that's just some refraction or something.  Bracelet looks original.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2014 10:47:02 GMT -8 seikoholic said:

I associate the date-only 7005s with a 3 o'clock crown.  7006's are day/date at 3 o'clock.  7009's are day/date, crown at 3:45 or whatever.  7002s are date-only, 4 o'clock crown.  I could be wrong, don't think I'm making a "this is the way it is" statement.  It's just my mental filing system for these movements.

This is a 3:45 (or whatever) crown, date-only, Daini-produced watch.   I don't know if it has gold accents or if that's just some refraction or something.  Bracelet looks original.

I think you're right about the 7005/6 being 3 o'clock crowned only as I was unable to find a single one that was not.
The 7009 did come with 3:00 and 3:18 crowns although the 3:00 seems to be uncommon.

Given the crown position on the watch in question, I can only guess that it is a 7025-8020 or similar...

[seikoholic]

Aug 29, 2014 11:04:36 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

Aug 29, 2014 10:47:02 GMT -8 seikoholic said:

I associate the date-only 7005s with a 3 o'clock crown.  7006's are day/date at 3 o'clock.  7009's are day/date, crown at 3:45 or whatever.  7002s are date-only, 4 o'clock crown.  I could be wrong, don't think I'm making a "this is the way it is" statement.  It's just my mental filing system for these movements.

This is a 3:45 (or whatever) crown, date-only, Daini-produced watch.   I don't know if it has gold accents or if that's just some refraction or something.  Bracelet looks original.

I think you're right about the 7005/6 being 3 o'clock crowned only as I was unable to find a single one that was not.
The 7009 did come with 3:00 and 3:18 crowns although the 3:00 seems to be uncommon.

Given the crown position on the watch in question, I can only guess that it is a 7025-8020 or similar...

That's the bunny.  Good call, I'll bet you're right.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2014 11:06:54 GMT -8 seikoholic said:

Aug 29, 2014 11:04:36 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

I think you're right about the 7005/6 being 3 o'clock crowned only as I was unable to find a single one that was not.
The 7009 did come with 3:00 and 3:18 crowns although the 3:00 seems to be uncommon.

Given the crown position on the watch in question, I can only guess that it is a 7025-8020 or similar...

That's the bunny.  Good call, I'll bet you're right.

The 7025 also came in the diver with a 3 o'clock crown...

[HiBeat]

7025 is a good bet because they never had the "5" logo, and yours doesn't either.

[seikoholic]

Pete was right.  7025.  Specifically 7025-8030 from June '76.  Part of the reason I bought the lot was because I was intrigued by the bracelet, which both nice and original to the watch.  Boy, it's a doozy.  I don't know that it's rare or anything, but I've never seen this one before.

When it came in, I flipped it over and was jammed to see the long clasp showing the recessed SEIKO, mark of a Stelux bracelet.  Sure enough. It's a Kreisler Stelux, solid-link.  Even for Stelux it's a beautifully designed and made bracelet, with the links connected by a sort of tongue-in-groove thing, and pinned in the middle, only visible underneath.   The connector is round-profiled, like a hip joint in a socket, and done to wonderful tolerances.  In a wonderful stroke of good luck, it appears to be full-length, with five removable links still in place.

The whole watch is dirty as hell, and the integrated endlinks are warped.  It'll need some love.  And a new crystal.  

[Deleted]

That is going to clean up nicely!

I believe you will find the 7025 very similar to the 7009 only with 4 fewer jewels. I'm interested to see what you find

[seikoholic]

Sept 3, 2014 10:29:14 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

That is going to clean up nicely!

I believe you will find the 7025 very similar to the 7009 only with 4 fewer jewels. I'm interested to see what you find

I'm sure it won't surprise anyone here that the watch is a runner, and not a bad one.  Weak, in the 180s, 190s, but a definite runner.  Movement looks fine.  Internally it's shiny.  NO case abuse, no pitting, no water damage.  Just wear and wrist cheese.

[sdoocms]

Great find!!  

[HiBeat]

Sept 3, 2014 10:29:14 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

That is going to clean up nicely!

I believe you will find the 7025 very similar to the 7009 only with 4 fewer jewels. I'm interested to see what you find

The 7025- is basically the same as the 7005- except smaller rotor and possibly a slightly smaller overall diameter.  I've owned two and both were 3 o'clock crowns.

All 7009-'s are 17 jewels.  Same for the whole 7005/7006/7009/7025 series.   The 7019- is basically a 7009- with the 4 extra jewels.

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2014 18:34:57 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

Sept 3, 2014 10:29:14 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

That is going to clean up nicely!

I believe you will find the 7025 very similar to the 7009 only with 4 fewer jewels. I'm interested to see what you find

The 7025- is basically the same as the 7005- except smaller rotor and possibly a slightly smaller overall diameter.  I've owned two and both were 3 o'clock crowns.

All 7009-'s are 17 jewels.  Same for the whole 7005/7006/7009/7025 series.   The 7019- is basically a 7009- with the 4 extra jewels.

Turns out they all have the same part number for the balance assembly. That doesn't mean the balance wheels are the same although I would think a smaller wheel would require a different hairspring which would make a different assembly part number like the 7s26.

All have the same casing diameter of 27.0mm(12'''). The 7s26 grew to 29.4mm(13''').

The order in which they were released is a bit confusing.
First was the 7005(1969), then the 7006(1970), then 7019(1974), then 7025(1976) and finally the 7009(1980). It would seem that the 7009 was the culmination of the series and the first to have the 3:18 crown position with appropriate day/date wheels.

The 7002 was developed separately from this series as it was made to take a 4 o'clock crown and fit in the 6309/7548 casing.

[seikoholic]

Sept 4, 2014 19:16:05 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

Sept 4, 2014 18:34:57 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

The 7025- is basically the same as the 7005- except smaller rotor and possibly a slightly smaller overall diameter.  I've owned two and both were 3 o'clock crowns.

All 7009-'s are 17 jewels.  Same for the whole 7005/7006/7009/7025 series.   The 7019- is basically a 7009- with the 4 extra jewels.

Turns out they all have the same part number for the balance assembly. That doesn't mean the balance wheels are the same although I would think a smaller wheel would require a different hairspring which would make a different assembly part number like the 7s26.

All have the same casing diameter of 27.0mm(12'''). The 7s26 grew to 29.4mm(13''').

The order in which they were released is a bit confusing.
First was the 7005(1969), then the 7006(1970), then 7019(1974), then 7025(1976) and finally the 7009(1980). It would seem that the 7009 was the culmination of the series and the first to have the 3:18 crown position with appropriate day/date wheels.

The 7002 was developed separately from this series as it was made to take a 4 o'clock crown and fit in the 6309/7548 casing.

Wait, does this mean a 6309 would in theory drop into a 7002 case?  Not that I'd do this, but just for knowledge.  I have all the bits downstairs, I can check, but I had thought the 7002s would have a different internal structure.  Do the 7002 and 7S26 diver movements interchange?  

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2014 19:47:52 GMT -8 seikoholic said:

Sept 4, 2014 19:16:05 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

Turns out they all have the same part number for the balance assembly. That doesn't mean the balance wheels are the same although I would think a smaller wheel would require a different hairspring which would make a different assembly part number like the 7s26.

All have the same casing diameter of 27.0mm(12'''). The 7s26 grew to 29.4mm(13''').

The order in which they were released is a bit confusing.
First was the 7005(1969), then the 7006(1970), then 7019(1974), then 7025(1976) and finally the 7009(1980). It would seem that the 7009 was the culmination of the series and the first to have the 3:18 crown position with appropriate day/date wheels.

The 7002 was developed separately from this series as it was made to take a 4 o'clock crown and fit in the 6309/7548 casing.

Wait, does this mean a 6309 would in theory drop into a 7002 case?  Not that I'd do this, but just for knowledge.  I have all the bits downstairs, I can check, but I had thought the 7002s would have a different internal structure.  Do the 7002 and 7S26 diver movements interchange?  

While the 7002 and 6309 movements are the same diameter and have the same crown positions; the crown/stem tube assemblies are completely different. The stem heights in the movements are also different since the 7002 doesn't need to have the extra thickness for the day wheel and mechanisms. By fitting the 6309/7548 casing I meant that Seiko started with the 6309 case and adapted it to the 7002 just as the 7002 case was eventually adapted to the 7s26(SKX).

The 7s26 will not fit in the 7002 case without a major modification to the movement holder and likely the dial spacer since the 7s26 is 2.4mm wider than the 7002. For the same reasons the 4rxx and 6rxx movements are not really suited to the 6309/7002 cases.

As you say though, why would anyone want to do that?

[SeikoPsycho]

Sept 4, 2014 19:16:05 GMT -8 @penguinbce said:

Sept 4, 2014 18:34:57 GMT -8 HiBeat said:

The 7025- is basically the same as the 7005- except smaller rotor and possibly a slightly smaller overall diameter.  I've owned two and both were 3 o'clock crowns.

All 7009-'s are 17 jewels.  Same for the whole 7005/7006/7009/7025 series.   The 7019- is basically a 7009- with the 4 extra jewels.

Turns out they all have the same part number for the balance assembly. That doesn't mean the balance wheels are the same although I would think a smaller wheel would require a different hairspring which would make a different assembly part number like the 7s26.

All have the same casing diameter of 27.0mm(12'''). The 7s26 grew to 29.4mm(13''').

The order in which they were released is a bit confusing.
First was the 7005(1969), then the 7006(1970), then 7019(1974), then 7025(1976) and finally the 7009(1980). It would seem that the 7009 was the culmination of the series and the first to have the 3:18 crown position with appropriate day/date wheels.

The 7002 was developed separately from this series as it was made to take a 4 o'clock crown and fit in the 6309/7548 casing.

I think your dates are off a bit on the 7009 series. I have a 7009, dated May 75'. It's actually my first Seiko before I could scrape up the bucks for a new 6139-6005 which I bought in 76'