|
|
Post by ninja01 on Aug 29, 2014 16:24:50 GMT -8
Just wrote this up @ xxxxxxx auction review section: and adding it here too... ============================================================== I've not kept up with the market prices of the chronographs much, so I don't have much of a clue as to the "fair market value" of one of these lately. So, what do you think of this: This is a current auction (BIN/BO only, no bidding) open dated as far as I can see... Seiko 7016-5020; BIN or BO US$400.00(PHP17,470.30); slight/minor case wear ( gold color plate case, not SS), clean movement & dial/hands(slight lume "moss"). New Nato Strap. Did you catch that BIN??? US$400!! Now I got my example of this exact watch model, in the same case metal type (plated) about 13 years ago. It came from the stock of a watchmaker/seller. It looked like it had been NOS or at least very very little used (shop wear only?? or a repair never paid for???) AND it came on the original "rally" type strap!! Here's mine:   Would also appear to have an original sticker on the back  I got that one for just under US$150 with shipping ($15, rather expensive in those days), so watch itself came in at just over US$132. So, that expectation of a US$400 sale price (or even an offer accepted somewhat near there) is rather amazing to me... It is on eBay.PH from seller "time_slot", I won't give the link as it is "live" ... but I did want to write it up now while it is still being offered & can be seen by everyone here & discussed. You should be able to find it rather easily from the info I've given. If you need more clues, just let me know here. I can't post pics of the auction easily here, so just follow the search tips & look @ the auction page itself to compare mine with that one, OK? So... What do you think? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 17:35:57 GMT -8
Just wrote this up @ Dr. Seiko in the auction review section: seikoholics.yuku.com/topic/1352/master/1/#.VAEYCKNpvNFand adding it here too... ============================================================== I've not kept up with the market prices of the chronographs much, so I don't have much of a clue as to the "fair market value" of one of these lately. So, what do you think of this: This is a current auction (BIN/BO only, no bidding) open dated as far as I can see... Seiko 7016-5020; BIN or BO US$400.00(PHP17,470.30); slight/minor case wear ( gold color plate case, not SS), clean movement & dial/hands(slight lume "moss"). New Nato Strap. Did you catch that BIN??? US$400!! Now I got my example of this exact watch model, in the same case metal type (plated) about 13 years ago. It came from the stock of a watchmaker/seller. It looked like it had been NOS or at least very very little used (shop wear only?? or a repair never paid for???) AND it came on the original "rally" type strap!! Here's mine: Would also appear to have an original sticker on the back I got that one for just under US$150 with shipping ($15, rather expensive in those days), so watch itself came in at just over US$132. So, that expectation of a US$400 sale price (or even an offer accepted somewhat near there) is rather amazing to me... It is on eBay.PH from seller "time_slot", I won't give the link as it is "live" ... but I did want to write it up now while it is still being offered & can be seen by everyone here & discussed. You should be able to find it rather easily from the info I've given. If you need more clues, just let me know here. I can't post pics of the auction easily here, so just follow the search tips & look @ the auction page itself to compare mine with that one, OK? So... What do you think? Don, It's gold/gold coloured plated and not likely of much interest to serious collectors. Therefore it will only be a collector who has a hole in his collection or someone who doesn't know what they are buying who will grab this one up. To me that is nothing more than a $75 to $90 example of an old Seiko chronograph...at best good for parts. |
|
|
|
Post by seikoholic on Aug 29, 2014 18:13:45 GMT -8
I know so little about them, and have no reference for price at all for the most part. I just saw a very rough & reworked example sell on eBay for a couple hundred this last week. Not a good piece, no bracelet, heavily polished case and crystal.
|
|
cobrajet25
Needs a Life!
"Underweared curmudgeon!"
Posts: 3,357 
|
Post by cobrajet25 on Aug 30, 2014 1:43:44 GMT -8
Compared to what the contemporary Swiss stuff is going for, $400 for a watch like this is still STOOPID cheap.
These watches aren't really "our little secret" anymore. The word is getting out has gotten out. As the Swiss stuff shoots into the stratosphere there is going to be more interest in vintage Japanese, and with more interest comes higher prices.
I remember when really nice examples of the 6139-600x could be had for $100 or less all day long, and Ebay was crawling with them. I am sure Ninja does, too.
|
|
|
|
Post by seikoholic on Aug 30, 2014 14:43:45 GMT -8
Compared to what the contemporary Swiss stuff is going for, $400 for a watch like this is still STOOPID cheap. These watches aren't really "our little secret" anymore. The word is getting out has gotten out. As the Swiss stuff shoots into the stratosphere there is going to be more interest in vintage Japanese, and with more interest comes higher prices. I remember when really nice examples of the 6139-600x could be had for $100 or less all day long, and Ebay was crawling with them. I am sure Ninja does, too. Hell, I remember that. One of my last conversations with Jonathan drifted onto price / value changes, and he laughed and said "I couldn't give 'em away!". I asked about real rarities like 6159-7000 and he laughed. "NO ONE wanted those. Big heavy things. No one wanted them. They weren't worth anything.". |
|
|
|
Post by ninja01 on Aug 30, 2014 15:45:40 GMT -8
OK responding to the responses  1. Yeah, the "gold" plated examples usually do get less "play" in the collector market than SS or solid/filled REAL gold, that is true. I think mainly since if the buyer wants it as a 'wearer' then they have to worry about "brassing" eventually, which you don't have to worry w/ SS (etc.). So, in that context, yeah - a fairly low value is warranted. BUT ... 2. Checking back w/ my post on xxxxxx & seeing his response - I guess prices for some things we used to get rather "cheaply" have skyrocketed. And, indeed Japanese watches have gained a lot of "cred" in the normally Swiss & American watch collector community in recent years. I do remember a forum friend of mine getting a 300M 6159 back in late '90s (I think) from a jewelry store in a mall & paying only about US$325 for it!! The store apparently didn't think it was worth too much & not equal to the Rolex divers, etc. they likely normally dealt in, so a rather mild price. Fortunately, he knew what it was (quality & rarity) and snapped it up!! Today ... well, I think it would not happen!! 3. Yes, indeed I remember the days when there were good quality & even fine quality Seikos (Citizen, Orient) that came in @ "lunch money" or "dinner money" prices & should have gone for much more if quality(and relative rarity) was evaluated & not just name. Based on raw production count data, a generic Japanese watch is much rarer than a generic Swiss watch from the same period, at least up to about the late '70s. Especially in the early post-WWII days (1946 thru about late '50s), Japanese made watches are exceptionally "rare" in comparison. American made watches also have that characteristic as well, made in much fewer numbers than Swiss in the same year, especially after WWII. I have production count data posted @ xxxxx: {Sorry, links removed due to dispute with owner of that site} |
|
|
|
Post by ninja01 on Sept 5, 2014 15:44:42 GMT -8
More interesting items up on eBay.PH - Seiko 6138:
As I've just reported on xxxx & AWF,
Seiko chronographs currently up for sale (in addition to the 7016 I recently posted above):
1. from badingski, a "BABY PANDA", the 6138-8001
Ending Sep 08, 2014 08:30:46 PHT. Parts/dial said to be original. Clean (white w/ black subs&trim), light movement staining - esp. rotor, light case polishing. May be a "period" bracelet, but not the same style as mine (original type for grey/black dial) & in all reference pics I have (both dial colors).
These are very, very hard to find in really nice shape & all original!!
2. from watch_hora08, 6138-7000, the SLIDE-RULE
Ending Sep 12, 2014 22:00:06 PHT; looks rather clean externally, BUT no movement pic. SS#4N2230. Still evaluating whether the slide-rule bezel inserts are original or aftermarket. Not sure, though seller implies they are original.
I've bought items from both sellers in the past and have been pleased with the results.
As these items are "live", I'm NOT putting in links to them!!
|
|
|
|
Post by ninja01 on Sept 7, 2014 21:42:48 GMT -8
... 1. from badingski, a "BABY PANDA", the 6138-8001Ending Sep 08, 2014 08:30:46 PHT. Parts/dial said to be original. Clean (white w/ black subs&trim), light movement staining - esp. rotor, light case polishing. May be a "period" bracelet, but not the same style as mine (original type for grey/black dial) & in all reference pics I have (both dial colors). These are very, very hard to find in really nice shape & all original!! OK, Baby Panda result... Went for: END:US$406.25(PHP17,730.88)[Bidders:13,Bids:54] Now that it's over here's the auction link: www.ebay.ph/itm/RARE-SEIKO-BABY-PANDA-6138-8001-DAYDATE-CHRONOGRAPH-SS-AUTOMATIC-MENS-WATCH-/301298716502?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item4626cd8f56I'm glad I got mine on a very reasonably priced BIN about 13 years ago!! With shipping I paid in the low US$140 range!! It was very clean and has the original bracelet too! I've pictured it here (this section of the forum on a different thread) before I think. If not it's @ Dr. Seiko Seikoholics site. |
|
|
|
Post by estrickland on Sept 8, 2014 2:13:59 GMT -8
Hey, Ninja01 - Funnily enough I bought that charcoal Baby Panda you linked from your 'Auctions of the Year' thread on the old Seikoholics. In retrospect, not my best purchase - I wound up selling it for a loss, and picking up a nicer example. I kept the bracelet, but it's pretty much a writeoff - tons of micro-cracks in the fine links - definitely too fragile to wear. Here it is on bracelet. Looks fantastic. Can't be worn.  Re: the listed panda I haven't seen smudging like that in other examples. Reprint? Also that movement is worked over, and the case is highly polished. Here's my silver Panda for reference:  If you ever thing about selling your bracelet, please let me know! I've been looking for a few years. Almost bought a watch just to get the bracelet, but another bidder went to $1100! |
|
|
|
Post by Groundhog66 on Sept 8, 2014 9:13:05 GMT -8
Here it is on bracelet. Looks fantastic. Can't be worn. That's a damn shame, right there...what a beauty! |
|
|
|
Post by ninja01 on Sept 8, 2014 22:03:38 GMT -8
Funnily enough I bought that charcoal Baby Panda you linked from your 'Auctions of the Year' thread on the old Seikoholics. In retrospect, not my best purchase - I wound up selling it for a loss, and picking up a nicer example. I kept the bracelet, but it's pretty much a writeoff - tons of micro-cracks in the fine links - definitely too fragile to wear. ... Re: the listed panda I haven't seen smudging like that in other examples. Reprint? Also that movement is worked over, and the case is highly polished. ... If you ever thing about selling your bracelet, please let me know! I've been looking for a few years. Almost bought a watch just to get the bracelet, but another bidder went to $1100! Nice to "meet" one of the buyers of 1 of my xxxxxx review items!! I did those reviews mainly to help people avoid "overvalued" situations & hopefully avoid having to take a loss on resale. Could be a reprint on that FS example, but I did see smudging on part of a 6139 dial (one of mine) '& I don't think anyone would have bothered to re-dial or put in an aftermarket in that one, wouldn't have been worth it, would be money losing for the seller. Could be Seiko did have some quality problems in the '70s??? Not sure though. Even if I wanted to sell the bracelet - it is in a bank box in the US, and I'm in the Philippines with no intention of traveling back ... unless absolutely forced to I will say, while a number of those old Seiko bracelets are good collectibles, they are not always good wearers. For example: My 'beater' Cha Uma [brown Bullhead] came on original fishbone - NOT comfortable!! I got a beautiful Kuro Uma later as a "collectible" not a wearer. It had an Elgin bracelet that WAS comfortable ... so I swapped bracelets. The beautiful "safe queen" Kuro Uma (in the US) has the "correct" but uncomfortable bracelet, while the beater Cha Uma has the incorrect, but comfortable Elgin ... that one does get worn!! LOL!! |
|
|
|
Post by estrickland on Sept 9, 2014 1:45:56 GMT -8
Re: Panda Ah, well - live and learn - it was one of my very first Seikos, and my first used/vintage watch. Fell in love with the watch, and did some quick research to find it's pretty rare, especially on bracelet, so I jumped. Definitely would have been better to wait and see what a good market valuation is, and to learn more about the seller. Quite a bit wiser now. Re: bracelet If you ever make it back to your bank, let me know!  -- Sorry to hear you don't find the fishbone comfortable - love it on my Kuro Uma.  ... although I did have one break on me, sending the watch flying. Gave me quite a scare, but the watch seemed to come out of it ok. |
|
