Do you think this Seiko has an original dial?

[Thomas]

Hello folks,

I am looking at this watch at our favorite auction site, and the dial looks too good to be true:





What do you think? They say its original, but...


- Thomas

[antfarm]

I couldn't tell you if it is original, but it is a really cool looking dial...

[Groundhog66]

Great looking piece!

A quick Google search, brought results of many similar dials...could be legit. Most of the others I found, had the "Unique" just below "Seiko". 

[sdoocms]

Well maybe I will be stepping in it, but if it were me I would run away as fast as I can.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2014 17:53:11 GMT -8 sdoocms said:

Well maybe I will be stepping in it, but if it we me I would run away as fast as I can.

India Special

[longbike]

There is a..... "SUPER "....going right now from ..... (Saitama_ )for a nice good

affordable price too. Really nice one too.

Price is .....$14.00 ......... USD, Ship-$14.00

Attachments:

[cd_god]

I don't know.

Where is the seller based out of?

If you like the watch buy it and don;t do any further research which could hamper you love of the watch.

For me I like it a lot and if the price was cheap enough I would wear it and never look back (or at the internet)

[longbike]

Sept 9, 2014 17:25:51 GMT -8 Thomas said:

Hello folks,

I am looking at this watch at our favorite auction site, and the dial looks too good to be true:





What do you think? They say its original, but...


- Thomas

Thomas that Dial looks like it is ......... " Stamped ".   Look at the .......6:00  0'clock ....6 . Do you see the over-lapped Paint

on it ?  And the 1:00 o'clock Indiced marker ? The Dial looks like fine printed paper glued to the Dial plate.

But its a very nice watch also, if you like it that would be just fine to have

[cannop]

It's a very good refinish in my opinion. The Seiko script is not as stylised as it should be and looks a bit heavy. However it's a nice watch but these are small by todays standards.

[Rod]

Fake, just one error to note, the Seiko and the Unique script are not centred. This would never happen in Japan!

[Groundhog66]

I'm assuming this one is the real deal?

[ninja01]

Likely that is a refinished dial (in the main post) while the 2nd one shown just above seems to be an original dial to me.

I have a UNIQUE, which apparently has an OLD re-dial done by someone not familiar with English. Possibly even done in Japan "in the old days". They were also not familiar with proper Unique dials, but did know of the Citizen "Center Second" model:



See my post @ xxxxxx {Sorry link removed}

Now, the Unique is much like a Super, but from the Daini "division" of Seiko (Hattori Corp.) rather than Suwa which made most of the men's watches.



I have found few reference examples of Unique models, but I've not seen any with the "engraved" or recessed "S" mark and hour markers. Now, it is true that in the '60s certain models [early h-w cal. 3180 Grand Seiko, early Lord Marvel (pre 5740A), and Goldfeather models among the notable examples] did used engraved text and/or markers - but as far as I know, the Unique did not employ either.

[cannop]

I love your posts ninja!

[Rod]

Me too, It's a great honour to have him here to unravel the mysteries of Seiko in the early years

[Thomas]

Thank you all, with special thanks to the Ninja for his extended "Ninja Knowledge"!


I have canceled my desire! I had noticed the off-center text myself and said, "That can't be right!"


I looked at the other watches this vendor is selling and it look like many of them have similar dials. Too bad, for the people that can't ask you folks for help...


- Thomas

[Deleted]

Small note but on clocks the outer part of the minute hand always ends up on the chapter ring. This does seem to be the same on most watches I have looked at. So on clocks if the hand does not fall in the correct place we can deduct that the clock has either had a dial repaint, dial replacement or new hands but some thing is not correct.

When I first saw the photo of that dial 'even though I am no expert' I could tell it was not a Seiko factory finish. It's been pressed which is common on fakes and reproduction items coming from Asia. Also you'll notice that the minute hand falls a fair bit short of the chapter ring (minute marks) as I mentioned above with my findings with clocks and dials in general.

Personally I'd rather have a nice original dial with a bit of damage than a replacement or repainted dial that looked perfect. As the old saying goes, It's only original once!

[ninja01]

Sept 10, 2014 7:38:55 GMT -8 @cockroach said:

Small note but on clocks the outer part of the minute hand always ends up on the chapter ring. This does seem to be the same on most watches I have looked at. ...

Well, I've gone thru a bunch of my reference shots, most being vintage Seiko sales flyers & catalog type scans.

This does not seem to be a reliable "rule of thumb" for Seikos in the '50s and '60s. Many appear to have minute hands which end before reaching the minute track. A good number of those scans are in the xxxxxx Database:

{Sorry, due to a dispute with the site owner, I refuse to do anymore free advertising of his site!!}

Have a look. Hopefully the shots show up large enough for you to see the detail clearly enough (xxxxx sometimes resizes the .jpgs downward, thus losing some detail that is in the shots on my own system).

Anyway, your "rule of thumb" appears more reliable the older you go (from the small sample size I checked of items made before the 1960s).

And, I do agree with your assessment of the dial on that one in the main post. Doesn't seem correct factory original.

That being said. When it comes to something like Seiko Unique - you might have to wait a very very long time before you find one with a "good quality, original" dial .... unless you have good sources of supply in Japan itself. I know that here in the Philippines, you don't have that much choice when it comes to Seikos from the 1950s and before. Unique is a model of the last 1/2 of the 1950s.

[ninja01]

Sept 10, 2014 0:30:08 GMT -8 cannop said:

I love your posts ninja!

and to the others showing appreciation for my articles/posts:

Thank you for your appreciation. I will just say that I owe my knowledge to others who came before me, many being Japanese authors [some of "real" books and some of web articles], and also some Westerners who lived/worked in Japan and were able to get more "inside" the Japanese collector community than most Westerners outside Japan.