solex
Timekeeper
Posts: 535 
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Post by solex on Oct 9, 2014 10:42:06 GMT -8
Hi all, I'm in the middle of a complete restoration of a KS. I have read specifically on this forum that the date advance gear is the culprit for a non-functioning quick set date. I want to make sure that I'm looking at the correct part. In the attached picture there is a lower gear and an upper 4 fingered gear. Is it the upper gear that is the problem on this movement. Also what is the best way to remove the gear? Regards, Dan Attachments:
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 9, 2014 13:37:21 GMT -8
Geday, That's the infamous 56 series day/date rocker. It is particularly prone to failure and the majority of them are stuffed. The plastic SEIKO used to make the 4 finger gear on them cracks after 40 odd years and the quickset function will no longer work. There isn't any good alternative at present, but I can fix them if you get stuck. To remove it, you'll need to drop off most of the day/date stuff, it's pretty much at the bottom....bugger. The actual gear itself, you'll need to stake the entire assembly apart. It may not go back together again particularly well. Hi all, I'm in the middle of a complete restoration of a KS. I have read specifically on this forum that the date advance gear is the culprit for a non-functioning quick set date. I want to make sure that I'm looking at the correct part. In the attached picture there is a lower gear and an upper 4 fingered gear. Is it the upper gear that is the problem on this movement. Also what is the best way to remove the gear? Regards, Dan |
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solex
Timekeeper
Posts: 535
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Post by solex on Oct 9, 2014 15:03:44 GMT -8
Hi Hal,
Do you have any pictures that could guide me in the removal of the 4 finger gear?
Also interested in your fix, is this something you do (is please PM me with your info) or something you can share?
Regards,
Dan
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Post by ninja01 on Oct 9, 2014 15:22:00 GMT -8
Geday, That's the infamous 56 series day/date rocker. It is particularly prone to failure and the majority of them are stuffed. The plastic SEIKO used to make the 4 finger gear on them cracks after 40 odd years and the quickset function will no longer work. There isn't any good alternative at present, but I can fix them if you get stuck. Well, I did hear that someone either created metal wheels or had a stock of them from a 56GS (some say the wheels there are metal, some say they were still plastic). BUT: maybe you can find the source of those metal wheels! They have been talked about on the well-known forums before, so do a search for threads on the subject from a few years ago up to present. You may get lucky!! |
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 9, 2014 17:35:06 GMT -8
I did a lot of research into that a while ago. It appears someone was making some metal replacement gears for them a while ago but they've since dried up. As far as I can tell, SEIKO didn't make an all metal version of this part, but I could be wrong. There was some conjecture a while ago as well that there was a GS part that was a drop in, but I don't think it was definitively confirmed. Geday, That's the infamous 56 series day/date rocker. It is particularly prone to failure and the majority of them are stuffed. The plastic SEIKO used to make the 4 finger gear on them cracks after 40 odd years and the quickset function will no longer work. There isn't any good alternative at present, but I can fix them if you get stuck. Well, I did hear that someone either created metal wheels or had a stock of them from a 56GS (some say the wheels there are metal, some say they were still plastic). BUT: maybe you can find the source of those metal wheels! They have been talked about on the well-known forums before, so do a search for threads on the subject from a few years ago up to present. You may get lucky!! |
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cobrajet25
Needs a Life!
"Underweared curmudgeon!"
Posts: 3,357
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Post by cobrajet25 on Oct 10, 2014 23:56:27 GMT -8
This 56-series are great movements...except for this "Achilles' Heel".  When I see a 56xx that I am interested in buying this is the FIRST thing I ask about. It's a pity the plastic Seiko used back then wasn't a bit more resilient. But then again, it was the late 1960s. I guess they used what they had. The reason the gear was made of plastic and fitted onto a metal hub was so the gear could slip on the hub if a person were to try to manual change the day/date while it were changing over automatically at midnight. This prevented damage to the movement. I have never seen or heard of an all-metal version of this part. When this fault was first noticed en masse on the 56-series, many saw the inclusion of a plastic gear as a cost-cutting measure on Seiko's part, but it wasn't. So an all-metal part being found in the top-of-the-range GS is just a myth, IMHO. Truth be told, it would have been cheaper and easier for Seiko NOT to have included this now unfortunate movement safety feature. I have seen just as many 564x movements with this fault as 560x, 561x, and 562x, which would make sense since the metal/plastic design of this part had a particular purpose. Some still work, others don't. It's not a wear thing...it's an age thing, and there is no rhyme or reason to it. So NOS parts are also hit-and-miss. But I haven't seen a NOS one in years. Best bet is to find a parts watch, like an old, ratty, goldtone LM, that has a functioning quickset and rob the part out of it. |
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 11, 2014 0:43:30 GMT -8
I've worked out a way to get them working. If, collectively, you guys can send me a bunch of them, I could probably organise some sort of exchange system, kinda like what they do with car transmissions etc. I can add it as a forum member service. This 56-series are great movements...except for this "Achilles' Heel". When I see a 56xx that I am interested in buying this is the FIRST thing I ask about. It's a pity the plastic Seiko used back then wasn't a bit more resilient. But then again, it was the late 1960s. I guess they used what they had. The reason the gear was made of plastic and fitted onto a metal hub was so the gear could slip on the hub if a person were to try to manual change the day/date while it were changing over automatically at midnight. This prevented damage to the movement. I have never seen or heard of an all-metal version of this part. When this fault was first noticed en masse on the 56-series, many saw the inclusion of a plastic gear as a cost-cutting measure on Seiko's part, but it wasn't. So an all-metal part being found in the top-of-the-range GS is just a myth, IMHO. Truth be told, it would have been cheaper and easier for Seiko NOT to have included this now unfortunate movement safety feature. I have seen just as many 564x movements with this fault as 560x, 561x, and 562x, which would make sense since the metal/plastic design of this part had a particular purpose. Some still work, others don't. It's not a wear thing...it's an age thing, and there is no rhyme or reason to it. So NOS parts are also hit-and-miss. But I haven't seen a NOS one in years. Best bet is to find a parts watch, like an old, ratty, goldtone LM, that has a functioning quickset and rob the part out of it. |
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cobrajet25
Needs a Life!
"Underweared curmudgeon!"
Posts: 3,357
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Post by cobrajet25 on Oct 11, 2014 0:50:42 GMT -8
I've worked out a way to get them working. If, collectively, you guys can send me a bunch of them, I could probably organise some sort of exchange system, kinda like what they do with car transmissions etc. I can add it as a forum member service. This 56-series are great movements...except for this "Achilles' Heel". When I see a 56xx that I am interested in buying this is the FIRST thing I ask about. It's a pity the plastic Seiko used back then wasn't a bit more resilient. But then again, it was the late 1960s. I guess they used what they had. The reason the gear was made of plastic and fitted onto a metal hub was so the gear could slip on the hub if a person were to try to manual change the day/date while it were changing over automatically at midnight. This prevented damage to the movement. I have never seen or heard of an all-metal version of this part. When this fault was first noticed en masse on the 56-series, many saw the inclusion of a plastic gear as a cost-cutting measure on Seiko's part, but it wasn't. So an all-metal part being found in the top-of-the-range GS is just a myth, IMHO. Truth be told, it would have been cheaper and easier for Seiko NOT to have included this now unfortunate movement safety feature. I have seen just as many 564x movements with this fault as 560x, 561x, and 562x, which would make sense since the metal/plastic design of this part had a particular purpose. Some still work, others don't. It's not a wear thing...it's an age thing, and there is no rhyme or reason to it. So NOS parts are also hit-and-miss. But I haven't seen a NOS one in years. Best bet is to find a parts watch, like an old, ratty, goldtone LM, that has a functioning quickset and rob the part out of it. Awesome! I have a couple of dead ones. |
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 11, 2014 3:05:50 GMT -8
Sounds good. I've probably done about 30 of them for Hermann previously, and he's pretty happy, along with around 10 for myself. I get a pretty good yield on them. I reckon for forum members, $10 a piece. They take me about 20-30 mins to do, and I test them on a junk movement after to make sure they work. I've worked out a way to get them working. If, collectively, you guys can send me a bunch of them, I could probably organise some sort of exchange system, kinda like what they do with car transmissions etc. I can add it as a forum member service. Awesome! I have a couple of dead ones. |
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solex
Timekeeper
Posts: 535
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Post by solex on Oct 11, 2014 5:11:12 GMT -8
I'm in, so I would send you the whole movement?
Do you offer any other service while you have the movement?
Dan
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 11, 2014 5:24:20 GMT -8
Dan - Rocker only. It's another 20-30 minutes to get it out of the movement and more risk as the hands/dial need to come off. If you check out my forum section under services, if you send it to me for a standard service, I'll fix the rocker as part of it. I'm in, so I would send you the whole movement? Do you offer any other service while you have the movement? Dan |
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solex
Timekeeper
Posts: 535
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Post by solex on Oct 11, 2014 5:28:47 GMT -8
I will be sending you the movement only as the entire watch is being restored. Thanks
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When I see a 56xx that I am interested in buying this is the FIRST thing I ask about.