Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327 
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 19, 2014 13:59:24 GMT -8
For me it has to be the 7002 movement. -
I think the 7002 myth was started on one of the other forums we used to frequent. Whoever started it is an idiot. The original myth went "The 7002 was an experiment by SEIKO to see how few parts they could get away with in a movement, consequently, they wear poorly, can't be regulated well and are just crap movement. It was so bad SEIKO discontinued it after a relatively short run"...utter garbage. When I still had one it was great. No complaints about the build quality. There is no amount of shoddiness in it at all. It's simply another 700x derivative movement. And as we know, that series is amazing.
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Post by seikola on Oct 19, 2014 14:29:35 GMT -8
One word, Overwound ,
complete nonsense.
seikola
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 17:37:03 GMT -8
I have to agree, the 7002 is pure crap...  I have never seen any Swiss watch this terrible and certainly no other Seiko I have is this lousy  |
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cd_god
Is a Permanent Fixture
Finna set up a HOOD next door to your richie phuk suburban mansion
Posts: 12,298
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Post by cd_god on Oct 19, 2014 17:39:32 GMT -8
One word, Overwound , complete nonsense. seikola Damn. You beat me to it. "Overwound" and "rare" and "minty" are the top 3 Ebay terms in watch auctions. |
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Post by bobbymike on Oct 19, 2014 17:44:47 GMT -8
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cd_god
Is a Permanent Fixture
Finna set up a HOOD next door to your richie phuk suburban mansion
Posts: 12,298
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Post by cd_god on Oct 19, 2014 17:47:49 GMT -8
Not racist, classist. Ask everyone who owns a watch and a computer and they will tell you the Swiss are "Upper Class" How about Timex is for the poor people and Walmart shoppers. Anyone check out their new (at least 8 years going now) perpetual calendar and mechanical offerings. I'm surprised no other brand besides Seiko with their Lumibrite dials has anything to compete with the Indiglo.   |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 17:51:17 GMT -8
Not racist, classist. Ask everyone who owns a watch and a computer and they will tell you the Swiss are "Upper Class" Don't think I've ever seen a Swiss computer unless it was the one with five fingers poking out of a piece of cheese  D'oh! found one... ![]() ![]() |
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cd_god
Is a Permanent Fixture
Finna set up a HOOD next door to your richie phuk suburban mansion
Posts: 12,298
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Post by cd_god on Oct 19, 2014 17:57:31 GMT -8
Not racist, classist. Ask everyone who owns a watch and a computer and they will tell you the Swiss are "Upper Class" Don't think I've ever seen a Swiss computer unless it was the one with five fingers poking out of a piece of cheese How quickly we have gone from watches to cheese The only thing I know about cheese other than Kraft American Singles melt better than Land O Lakes slices and other generic brands is White Brick cheese tastes better than Yellow Brick cheese. I guess that could be construed as cheesism  |
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Post by takesalickin on Oct 19, 2014 18:43:30 GMT -8
The 7S26 can't be adjusted to run within COSC specs. (I've done it several times. Takes patience, but is definitely achievable.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 18:53:10 GMT -8
The 7S26 can't be adjusted to run within COSC specs. (I've done it several times. Takes patience, but is definitely achievable.) Jeff, Thank you for using the correct term; 'adjusted'. It is not possible or at least highly unlikely that the 7s26 can be simply regulated to meet COSC test standards. How many adjustments did you typically have to make? Did they include end shack on the balance; curb pin adjustment on the palette fork; palette jewel tweeking; repoising the balance? I agree, the 7s26 like it's forebearers should be capable of taking these adjustments and performing to extremely high standards. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the 7002 is often and easily brought into these specs. I did not realize this until I got my Timegrapher and was absolutely blown away by the 7002! |
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Post by takesalickin on Oct 19, 2014 19:01:59 GMT -8
The 7S26 can't be adjusted to run within COSC specs. (I've done it several times. Takes patience, but is definitely achievable.) Jeff, Thank you for using the correct term; 'adjusted'. It is not possible or at least highly unlikely that the 7s26 can be simply regulated to meet COSC test standards. How many adjustments did you typically have to make? Did they include end shack on the balance; curb pin adjustment on the palette fork; palette jewel tweeking; repoising the balance? I agree, the 7s26 like it's forebearers should be capable of taking these adjustments and performing to extremely high standards. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the 7002 is often and easily brought into these specs. I did not realize this until I got my Timegrapher and was absolutely blown away by the 7002! I'm just a shade tree mechanic when it comes to working on watches, completely self taught and to be completely honest a lot of my patients die on the operating room table! So when I say "COSC spec", for my purposes that means I'm just trying to get the watch to run within that range of -4/+6 for the average daily rate. I understand that COSC standards involve a lot more than that. But I posted that because I routinely see people slag off on the 7S26 and say you can't get it to run better than -15/+15 sec per day. And I know that's not correct. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 19:06:43 GMT -8
"It's magnetized!" I read and hear this so much that I got to the point where I had to say something in a thread here on WS. Well, as it turned out, magnetism is a very real condition and does affect the accuracy of a movement. The problem I have with this 'myth' is that every time someone posts a problem about time keeping; the first thing that comes up is "magnetism"  The large majority of problems attributed to magnetism actually have nothing to do with magnetism. Examples might be; watch runs fast in one position and slow in another; watch was dropped(and has a 7s26A/B movement) then runs minutes per hour too fast; watch runs too slow or stops; watch won't hold a decent reserve; clasp keeps coming loose. You get the idea. Sadly way too many people are willing to offer diagnostic advice based on nothing but having read previous mythological or inappropriately irrelevant info. Yes, magnetism is real and it is more common than we might think; but it's affects are pretty specific an fairly easy to diagnose.I have done a lot of research and experimenting with magnets and I know it is not a simple case of 'it's magnetized or it isn't'. I have a couple of stainless steel cadaver needles that I have accidentally magnetized so that they have north poles on both ends and a south pole near the center with a dead zone between them! I know, this defies our high school physics teachings but it is real. This is a picture of one half of the needle's magnetic field as shown by iron filing spread on a sheet of paper placed over the needle...  The other half of the needle displayed an almost mirror image of this photo! Yes the needle is approximately 4 1/2" long. So we mustn't dismiss magnetism as a real problem...just let's not make it the source of every problem that shows up on a watch forum  |
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Post by takesalickin on Oct 19, 2014 19:19:23 GMT -8
"It's magnetized!" I read and hear this so much that I got to the point where I had to say something in a thread here on WS. Well, as it turned out, magnetism is a very real condition and does affect the accuracy of a movement. The problem I have with this 'myth' is that every time someone posts a problem about time keeping; the first thing that comes up is "magnetism" The large majority of problems attributed to magnetism actually have nothing to do with magnetism. Examples might be; watch runs fast in one position and slow in another; watch was dropped(and has a 7s26A/B movement) then runs minutes per hour too fast; watch runs too slow or stops; watch won't hold a decent reserve; clasp keeps coming loose. You get the idea. Sadly way too many people are willing to offer diagnostic advice based on nothing but having read previous mythological or inappropriately irrelevant info. Yes, magnetism is real and it is more common than we might think; but it's affects are pretty specific an fairly easy to diagnose.I have done a lot of research and experimenting with magnets and I know it is not a simple case of 'it's magnetized or it isn't'. I have a couple of stainless steel cadaver needles that I have accidentally magnetized so that they have north poles on both ends and a south pole near the center with a dead zone between them! I know, this defies our high school physics teachings but it is real. This is a picture of one half of the needle's magnetic field as shown by iron filing spread on a sheet of paper placed over the needle... The other half of the needle displayed an almost mirror image of this photo! Yes the needle is approximately 4 1/2" long. So we mustn't dismiss magnetism as a real problem...just let's not make it the source of every problem that shows up on a watch forum I often wondered how much legitimacy there was to claims of magnetism. I worked as an electrician for years and would often wear my mechanical watches in switch gear rooms - lots of big transformers, creating electromagnetic fields. We even wondered about the long term health effects of being exposed to magnetism on a fairly regular basis. But never once did I have a watch affected by being near transformers. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 19:41:45 GMT -8
"It's magnetized!" I read and hear this so much that I got to the point where I had to say something in a thread here on WS. Well, as it turned out, magnetism is a very real condition and does affect the accuracy of a movement. The problem I have with this 'myth' is that every time someone posts a problem about time keeping; the first thing that comes up is "magnetism" The large majority of problems attributed to magnetism actually have nothing to do with magnetism. Examples might be; watch runs fast in one position and slow in another; watch was dropped(and has a 7s26A/B movement) then runs minutes per hour too fast; watch runs too slow or stops; watch won't hold a decent reserve; clasp keeps coming loose. You get the idea. Sadly way too many people are willing to offer diagnostic advice based on nothing but having read previous mythological or inappropriately irrelevant info. Yes, magnetism is real and it is more common than we might think; but it's affects are pretty specific an fairly easy to diagnose.I have done a lot of research and experimenting with magnets and I know it is not a simple case of 'it's magnetized or it isn't'. I have a couple of stainless steel cadaver needles that I have accidentally magnetized so that they have north poles on both ends and a south pole near the center with a dead zone between them! I know, this defies our high school physics teachings but it is real. This is a picture of one half of the needle's magnetic field as shown by iron filing spread on a sheet of paper placed over the needle... The other half of the needle displayed an almost mirror image of this photo! Yes the needle is approximately 4 1/2" long. So we mustn't dismiss magnetism as a real problem...just let's not make it the source of every problem that shows up on a watch forum I often wondered how much legitimacy there was to claims of magnetism. I worked as an electrician for years and would often wear my mechanical watches in switch gear rooms - lots of big transformers, creating electromagnetic fields. We even wondered about the long term health effects of being exposed to magnetism on a fairly regular basis. But never once did I have a watch affected by being near transformers. Dang! My reply went into the ether  Let's try again. This is a watch I bought that did not have to cross international borders and was sent prior to our currently anal security scans...  This watch has a brass case and a brass case back. It was not working when I received it. When I removed the case back it started running. As soon as I put the case back on, it would stop running. Of course I assumed something was binding and looked everywhere for the source of that problem. Never found it! The watch sat for several years before I got back to it and I accidentally discovered that the 'brass' case back was capable of picking up penny iron nails!!! Yep, magnetized; so the alloy used in the case back had a high enough ferrous content to make it magnetizable. Moving forward, I played with the watch with the back off. It ran fine but way too fast. This turned out to be a badly mangled hairspring. I decided to try 'demagging' the case back with my soldering gun and heck if it didn't do the job. I was able to put the back on the watch and it didn't stop running; nor did the back pick up nails or even a simple straight pin! I eventually sourced an NOS balance with perfect spring but just haven't had the balls to attempt swapping it in yet  |
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Post by seikoholic on Oct 20, 2014 10:15:31 GMT -8
For me it has to be the 7002 movement. - I think the 7002 myth was started on one of the other forums we used to frequent. Whoever started it is an idiot. The original myth went "The 7002 was an experiment by SEIKO to see how few parts they could get away with in a movement, consequently, they wear poorly, can't be regulated well and are just crap movement. It was so bad SEIKO discontinued it after a relatively short run"...utter garbage. When I still had one it was great. No complaints about the build quality. There is no amount of shoddiness in it at all. It's simply another 700x derivative movement. And as we know, that series is amazing. Yeah, the 7002 thing really is maddening. I'd heard it a lot when I first started going to TOF, mostly from one person, and it took me seeing them on the timegrapher, and being able to look through the movement, to realize how wrong this person was. The 7002 does have a couple of issues that I don't like - plastic movement and dial rings are a big one. But the movement itself is amazingly wonderful. Case quality is great, and the early models have a wonderful innovation - the self-contained click ball assembly. A great solution to the stuck click ball issue the 6309s are prone to. Very smart solution, only outdone by the 2nd gen circular spring assembly later on. |
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 20, 2014 15:19:39 GMT -8
I used to dislike plastic movement rings and stuff. Then when I thought about it, what's one of the major failing components in a lot of these watches? The movement ring. They ALWAYS corrode and the spring snaps into about a zillion pieces. Plastic doesn't corrode, yay! For me it has to be the 7002 movement. - I think the 7002 myth was started on one of the other forums we used to frequent. Whoever started it is an idiot. The original myth went "The 7002 was an experiment by SEIKO to see how few parts they could get away with in a movement, consequently, they wear poorly, can't be regulated well and are just crap movement. It was so bad SEIKO discontinued it after a relatively short run"...utter garbage. When I still had one it was great. No complaints about the build quality. There is no amount of shoddiness in it at all. It's simply another 700x derivative movement. And as we know, that series is amazing. Yeah, the 7002 thing really is maddening. I'd heard it a lot when I first started going to TOF, mostly from one person, and it took me seeing them on the timegrapher, and being able to look through the movement, to realize how wrong this person was. The 7002 does have a couple of issues that I don't like - plastic movement and dial rings are a big one. But the movement itself is amazingly wonderful. Case quality is great, and the early models have a wonderful innovation - the self-contained click ball assembly. A great solution to the stuck click ball issue the 6309s are prone to. Very smart solution, only outdone by the 2nd gen circular spring assembly later on. |
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Post by ninja01 on Oct 20, 2014 15:45:14 GMT -8
RE: "I used to dislike plastic movement rings and stuff. Then when I thought about it, what's one of the major failing components in a lot of these watches? The movement ring. They ALWAYS corrode and the spring snaps into about a zillion pieces. Plastic doesn't corrode, yay!" True, but then remember ... under certain conditions (sun exposure, heat,...), plastic can become brittle and crack too. Think of the date advance mechanism in the Seiko 56 family!! Plastic there!! Of course the movement ring, etc., is not a moving part with stress on it. So, likely much less trouble there ...  |
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Adrian-VTA
Global Moderator
Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,327
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Oct 20, 2014 16:10:06 GMT -8
Yeah those parts shouldn't be plastic! That said, there is a fair bit of torque on that little rocker, so I'm not too surprised it broke. I've been thinking about other ways of making new ones and I've got some ideas but nothing firm just yet. I'm thinking we might be able to photo etch them perhaps? I might do a drawing of them and try Shapeways as well, although I may fall afoul of their minimum size restrictions. RE: "I used to dislike plastic movement rings and stuff. Then when I thought about it, what's one of the major failing components in a lot of these watches? The movement ring. They ALWAYS corrode and the spring snaps into about a zillion pieces. Plastic doesn't corrode, yay!" True, but then remember ... under certain conditions (sun exposure, heat,...), plastic can become brittle and crack too. Think of the date advance mechanism in the Seiko 56 family!! Plastic there!! Of course the movement ring, etc., is not a moving part with stress on it. So, likely much less trouble there ... |
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mikeyt
Needs a Life!
Krusty Olde Pharte
Posts: 4,821
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Post by mikeyt on Oct 20, 2014 17:56:10 GMT -8
Don't think I've ever seen a Swiss computer unless it was the one with five fingers poking out of a piece of cheese How quickly we have gone from watches to cheese The only thing I know about cheese other than Kraft American Singles melt better than Land O Lakes slices and other generic brands is White Brick cheese tastes better than Yellow Brick cheese. I guess that could be construed as cheesism Or just cheesy. |
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