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Post by ninja01 on Oct 26, 2014 21:31:33 GMT -8
Just won this one in the Philippine eBay system this AM (our time): www.ebay.ph/itm/SEIKO-PRESMATIC-HI-BEAT-5146-5021-DAYDATE-STAINLESS-STEEL-AUTOMATIC-MENS-WATCH-/301359477551?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item462a6cb32fSome seller's pics:   Correct crown. And, case seems to have good original texture in most places (AFAIK). Seller does indicate the case was given a "slight polish" though.  Some wear on back & "slightly polished" per seller. Here's the movement:  It is my 1st with the 30j variant, my other 2 hi-beat Presmatic examples have the lower jewel count variant, 27. You can see some "spotting" (a corrosion) on the rotor weight. From my experience that is common on the Presmatic / Seikomatic-P lines. None of these models show up often around here (they were made for only about a year per Seikomatic) but it is almost unheard of to find a 30j with a correct crown and in nice cosmetic shape!! The 5106 (33j low-beat in either Seikomatic-P or Presmatic badging) shows up relatively more often as they were made for more years. I was surprised by how little this went for considering movement quality. A 27j example of a similar case style went for about US$126 about a month ago here. And I think this one is in slightly better shape as well! Will update when it arrives. You can see my other hi-beat Presmatic examples on other threads here .... also my low-beat Presmatic's are shown somewhere as well! |
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Post by thianwong on Oct 26, 2014 22:53:43 GMT -8
Congrats! Do they call that style TV case?
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Post by ninja01 on Oct 27, 2014 1:28:47 GMT -8
Congrats! Do they call that style TV case? OK, thanks!! Well on the TV case question, I'm not sure - it certainly does have some of the characteristics of what I usually see around that is called that, but I think the dial aperture (and crystal) shape does pretty much fit the description. However, I don't think the overall case shape is quite what people normally mean by that term. I usually see more rectangular-ish/squarish cases referred to as TV. This one is more curved at the sides than what I usually see called TV. This one reminds me of one of the vintage Rado models, I think they call it "President"  I don't know Rado well, & I'm going from memory here too, I could be wrong on that model, but I do remember seeing pictures of some Rado in auction listings that look quite like this! |
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Post by Groundhog66 on Oct 27, 2014 7:29:04 GMT -8
Nice pick up!
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Post by sweffymo on Oct 28, 2014 21:50:28 GMT -8
Very nice! The only "TV style" watch I have is my King Seiko (which I currently don't wear because it needs some TLC and I am going to send it to get some love as soon as I graduate and get a real job). But that doesn't mean I can't show it off in a thread about one of its TV-shaped and hi-beat brethren!  When I bought this it was on a "fishbone" bracelet which was apparently original. I didn't really know a lot about this kind of stuff back then and I stupidly sold it for like $45 or so. I like it better on the strap but I should have at least kept the bracelet...  |
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Post by ninja01 on Oct 29, 2014 20:56:13 GMT -8
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Post by ninja01 on Oct 30, 2014 1:34:41 GMT -8
Coincidentally it came this afternoon, real quick shipping!!
Here's what I can say so far:
1. Based on reference pics I have, I would say the case-back (lid) was polished to a mirror surface, but should have texture lines. The top-edge curved surfaces on each side of the watch are mirror finish now & likely should have some kind of vertical texture lines. The case-top, lower portion of the sides near the back, and the back of the case (apart from the lid) may have original texture. There were some "pits" in the side of the crystal filled with dirt and the dirt did seem to extend out to the case-top a short distance (in other words, over the texture lines there). So, either it is original texture on top, or a rather old polishing job. On the whole, one can see very few pits or gashes/scratches in it, but there clearly was some wear (much of which was smoothed out by the light polishing).
2. Dial: this is the somewhat weak point of the watch and (to me anyway) not quite visible in the pictures. There is some definite dial "spotting" and staining @ the right side, but at life-size, on the wrist, it should not be bothersome as it somewhat blends in with the grey/silver color and linen texturing of the dial.
Overall, I'm still pleased, at the price I paid. Here in the Philippines, this is the 1st 30j example I've seen that has all correct parts and only minor cosmetic issues. There were 2 other examples (different case types) w/ the 30j - one had an incorrect crown (so, lacking the distinctive feature making it a "Presmatic", the 2 part crown top), while the other had a NSP plated case-top and there was significant plating wear around the crown area of the case, not very attractive (at least in pictures). There have (as one would expect) more examples of the 27j variants around over the last 5+ years, but still not more than a handful. One was my beautiful 5146-7030 which I've shown (even came w/ original bracelet) and the other was a rather decent -7000. But, for the 30j variant, this is the 1st one in 5+ years of Philippine eBay scouring that I felt was collection worthy, though still not as "pristine" as I like. But, sometimes you just have to settle for a moderately good example when the item was made for only a limited timeframe (about a year according to Seikomatic site in Japan). Hey, for the movement quality and "rarity" I think I did OK on the price.
Will report on timing when I get time (pun intended)... and when enough testing is done to say roughly how it's doing.
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Post by ninja01 on Oct 30, 2014 15:28:12 GMT -8
OK, initial timing test results!! Let it run overnight at rest (not sure of the position as I bagged it up in zip-locs & a drybox & put it away in the safe - I suspect it was on it's back though), started "dead even" to the quartz wall clock @ 2PM (on the dot!!) yesterday. Took it out this AM @ 5:20 and compared. The Presmatic was exactly .... .... drum roll please!!! .... 30 seconds slow to the clock.  ... If we do the math that means it would likely be slow by 46 seconds in a complete day. Oh well, we're not in Chronometer territory, I guess it would need some adjusting or regulation but not sure whom I'd trust it to in this town. I don't mind having the local watch-techs work on my lower-grade items, but Chronometer grade & other hi-end stuff ... well, so far, I've just put them away to sleep in the collection (in the safe or bank box) until I figure out what I can do with them. Then wear something else instead  Someday, maybe, perhaps, ... At least, the ones safely "sleeping" aren't getting all "hacked up" from daily dings & movement wear. It may enhance their value over the next 20 to 30 years, then I'll be happy about it....  Meantime, I just take them out to admire & inspect periodically, as if it were my coin collection. Oh yeah, forgot to say yesterday: The case has a real "solid" presence on the wrist. It is a "chunky" late '60s & '70s look, indeed it has some "heft" to it & it's got a bigger look/feel to it than I thought it would from pictures. It is not quite as "massive" as my 5146-7000 or the -7030 (both are chunky round case designs) but it still is impressively large. Of course, that's not an issue for me (having to have a large watch) as I'm rather small by Western standards ... I joke that I'm "Pinoy size"... so medium size dress watches really do well for me. My daily wear lately has been either a Big/Small Eye (UFO) 6138 or a Cha Uma (Brown Bullhead) 6138 ... that is kind of "pushing it" with regard to looking ridiculously large on my wrist, but it barely works. OK, think that's all the updates for now |
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Post by ninja01 on Oct 31, 2014 15:43:16 GMT -8
More timing results:
1. After letting it run for 1 day, and 2 & 3/4 hours, it was 75 seconds slow. Doing the math, that comes out to 67.4 seconds slow per day.
2. The next morning (today) it was running about a minute slow per day.
So, I've seen it's performance over a greater range of the mainspring "power curve" and it does seem about a minute behind on average, sitting at rest on either it's back or face (sitting in storage).
Of course, that doesn't say how it would do on the wrist, being moved around to different positions, and being kept more constantly wound thru wrist movement. Possibly, it would do better.
Anyway, for US$92 + a little under $5 shipping [was actually 4322.00 Philippine Pesos, as I paid in local currency] , I would say, it's a pretty nice watch overall - and a great deal. Certainly, for movement quality alone, it's a great price (as I'd say these are at least as good as a King Seiko based on what I know about them, and I don't think you can get a nice looking & fully function King Seiko from 1969/1970 time-frame for less than US$100). And, these come along much less often than the typical King Seiko of that time (around here, at least). Like I said, this is probably the only one (of the 30j variant) I've seen in over 5 years of scouring Philippine eBay that I thought was acceptable for my collection. The few others that came along were OK to wear, but not to be "reference examples" (fully correct parts and decent cosmetic condition) in a collection, IMHO.
OK, looking at the dial again in good sunlight - it's really not bad. A little light staining around the day/date window & light spotting scattered thru the dial. As I said before, most just blends in with the silver/grey & texture of the dial. The markers could use a bit of metal cleaning (like with a metal polish like Brasso or Noxon), but I don't dare try anything. Anyway, that "problem" is not visible when worn, just at magnification. Even the dial stain & spotting don't show up noticeably (at least not to my eyes) when at life-size. So, overall - not bad condition. The light case polishing does make the case look quite "new & presentable" when on the wrist.
Anyway, hope you enjoyed seeing this "rare bird"!! Remember, it's the higher-jiewel-count variant (30j) which almost NEVER shows up here in any kind of "fully factory original" and relatively presentable (cosmetically) shape.
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I don't know Rado well, & I'm going from memory here too, I could be wrong on that model, but I do remember seeing pictures of some Rado in auction listings that look quite like this!
... If we do the math that means it would likely be slow by 46 seconds in a complete day.
Meantime, I just take them out to admire & inspect periodically, as if it were my coin collection.