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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 5:32:19 GMT -8
You have to admit there are certain watches we know are 100% correct in our collections. Myself personally? I will not keep a watch in one piece if I think is wrong. I strip it for spare parts but I never reuse a case, movement or dial in another watch. I have resist yellow T dials and silver proofs in my spares draw. The cases, case backs and dials have all been destroyed so they cannot be made into complete watches should I snuff it and someone elses gets my Seiko gear.
I think if you use any major parts such as the case, dial or movement you should let the new owner know before they buy from you as really if you have built the watch out of parts then you know the truth and the watch how ever nice it may be is a marriage or a bitsa.
This is just my opinion. I have the same battle with clocks. This is also why I don't buy many clocks and watches compared to how many are available to me. Fussy is the only way to be with antiques and collectibles otherwise the wrong folk make all the money aka beejoop4 off evilBay for instance.
I would rather have a faded dial, tarnished movement or scratched crystal than the alternative whether it be NOS or genuine Seiko secondhand spares or if these are not available but 'good quality' aftermarket parts are then fine that's the way it must be. The bracelet must be correct for me but does not have to be original to the watch. The inner rotating bezel and crystal I am not super fussed over as long as they are genuine Seiko parts used. Honest restoration is not an issue with me that said. There will be a large void here due to cultural differences. In the UK we realise the watch is 40+ years old and like original. In the US you like things to look new. It's just the way it is and nobody is right or wrong it's personal tastes other than folk like beejoop4 are getting rich by selling marriage. If folk explain how much of a watch they replaced fine but if they replaced the movement and dial and said nothing then shame on them in my humble.
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Nov 21, 2014 5:35:00 GMT -8
Great work! It is really hard to find one of those without subdial damage. They are really prone to it. Also flaking of the numbers on the inner rotating bezel. FWIW, the case used on this model is the same as the ubiquitous 6139-600x, so if you wind up with a donor case someday you could always swap it out and have the original finish. But then it wouldn't be original. I'd rather have damage or repairs than a replacement as at the end of the day it's only a spare parts watch if you start swapping bits over. The watch did have sub dial damage but I restored the dial and airbrushed the damaged area. A refinished case isn't original anymore, either. Neither is a relumed/repainted dial. I guess it's a matter of choice, but i don't mind swapping an identical used original part for an identical used original part in better condition when it is called for.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 5:41:22 GMT -8
But then it wouldn't be original. I'd rather have damage or repairs than a replacement as at the end of the day it's only a spare parts watch if you start swapping bits over. The watch did have sub dial damage but I restored the dial and airbrushed the damaged area. A refinished case isn't original anymore, either. Neither is a relumed/repainted dial. I guess it's a matter of choice, but i don't mind swapping an identical used original part for an identical used original part in better condition when it is called for. A refinshed case 'is' original It's just the finish is not original but then it is 40 years old most likely but a replacement case with original finish is not . Same goes to relume. At least the original dial is still being used and not replaced for a better example from another watch aka married up. As long as people are open about what's replaced then as far as I am concerned no problem as I said it's when it is hidden it is dishonest otherwise that info should be available to the new buyer. As you say personal tastes but I'll remember this is ok with you when I have a nice marriage your interested in buying from me
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Nov 21, 2014 5:54:57 GMT -8
A refinished case isn't original anymore, either. Neither is a relumed/repainted dial. I guess it's a matter of choice, but i don't mind swapping an identical used original part for an identical used original part in better condition when it is called for. A refinshed case 'is' original It's just the finish is not original but then it is 40 years old most likely but a replacement case with original finish is not . Same goes to relume. At least the original dial is still being used and not replaced for a better example from another watch aka married up. As long as people are open about what's replaced then as far as I am concerned no problem as I said it's when it is hidden it is dishonest otherwise that info should be available to the new buyer. As you say personal tastes but I'll remember this is ok with you when I have a nice marriage your interested in buying from me Soooo a watch with a replaced crystal, refinished/relumed dial, relumed hands, and a refinished case is still 'original' to you? You should work in the Philippines! Once it's modified, it's not original anymore. Were I ever to sell you a 'marriage', you'd never be able to tell. Neither would anyone else. I even go so far as to closely match the stamped DATE CODES on the backs of dials. And you are presuming the dial you touched up and relumed is original and not the result of a previous 'marriage'. I guess you and I just have different definitions of 'original'.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 6:13:05 GMT -8
Indeed we do.
Ok you've gone right off the radar with this reply.
First off my work is exceptional not the crap you see coming out of the Philippines on the whole. I am a professionally trained metal worker and served my apprenticeship in Rolls Royces classic division attaining the highest apprentice scores Rolls had ever had to that date and that record still stands today. I can say without doubt I am the only guy on this forum who can make a complete cars bodywork from a few sheets of metal to the highest standard in the world.
So as for original? I now work professionally as a clock restorer. This is my full time occupation now. My website fusee clocks states I will disclose everything I have done to 'restore' a clock but I will not marry up parts. This is the same attitude I take when restoring watches. So what you were basically saying earlier was don't worry about the finish not being original (although you would not be able to tell unless I told you this fact) as you can always use a case 'from another watch'. I honestly do not see how this can be better than using the original case other than it has been 'restored' not 'replaced'.
Ok my watch has been relumed but it is still the original dial. What point are you trying to make about my 40 year old watch needing the lume replaced because a bad repair in the past had caused the lume to go black and crispy? It's 40 years old and I'm not hiding the fact. Also the quality of the relume is factory. Same goes for the hands. At least they are likely original to the watch and not from some parts draw.
So the crystal was replaced? Yes because the original was cracked around the base. Once again it's a 40 year old watch and some glass got broken. Should I have just left it in place?
Finally I am not selling this watch! It's my personal watch. So why does it matter what I have done with it? I could have painted mickey mouse on the dial and it doesn't matter to anyone by me as it's my watch and likely not going to be ever up for sale. I just done this thread to show how you can turn a otherwise tierd but HONEST watch into some thing worthy of wearing out any day and being proud of it.
Tone
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Nov 21, 2014 6:36:17 GMT -8
Indeed we do. Ok you've gone right off the radar with this reply. First off my work is exceptional not the crap you see coming out of the Philippines on the whole. I am a professionally trained metal worker and served my apprenticeship in Rolls Royces classic division attaining the highest apprentice scores Rolls had ever had to that date and that record still stands today. I can say without doubt I am the only guy on this forum who can make a complete cars bodywork from a few sheets of metal to the highest standard in the world. So as for original? I now work professionally as a clock restorer. This is my full time occupation now. My website fusee clocks states I will disclose everything I have done to 'restore' a clock but I will not marry up parts. This is the same attitude I take when restoring watches. So what you were basically saying earlier was don't worry about the finish not being original (although you would not be able to tell unless I told you this fact) as you can always use a case 'from another watch'. I honestly do not see how this can be better than using the original case other than it has been 'restored' not 'replaced'. Ok my watch has been relumed but it is still the original dial. What point are you trying to make about my 40 year old watch needing the lume replaced because a bad repair in the past had caused the lume to go black and crispy? It's 40 years old and I'm not hiding the fact. Also the quality of the relume is factory. Same goes for the hands. At least they are likely original to the watch and not from some parts draw. So the crystal was replaced? Yes because the original was cracked around the base. Once again it's a 40 year old watch and some glass got broken. Should I have just left it in place? Finally I am not selling this watch! It's my personal watch. So why does it matter what I have done with it? I could have painted mickey mouse on the dial and it doesn't matter to anyone by me as it's my watch and likely not going to be ever up for sale. I just done this thread to show how you can turn a otherwise tierd but HONEST watch into some thing worthy of wearing out any day and being proud of it. Tone My work is exceptional, too. Not everyone who performs 'marriages', as you quite derisively call them, is as ham-fisted about it as the guys in the Philippines are. Neither is everyone who touches up dials, as you have proven. You seem to be quite groused by the idea that what you do is similar to what Philippine sellers do because it is done to a higher standard. Well, I am more than happy to grant you that it is done to a higher standard, and have already told you I am impressed with your efforts. But you ARE doing the same thing, and seem to be rather openly condescending towards people who restore these 40-year-old watches in a different way. Would you poo-poo a 6139 that had it's winding weight replaced? After all, the movement isn't 'original' anymore...right? Seiko sold things like replacement dials and cases for a reason, and there is nothing wrong with using these parts as 1:1 replacements. THEY ARE 1:1 PARTS!
I guess I just find it bizarre that you believe a watch with a case that has had 2% of it's metal completely removed can be considered original and pure, but a watch that has had an identical replacement case with 99% of it's original finish installed has somehow been bastardized. There is another part of the world where this kind of thinking is the norm...
To each his own...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 7:26:49 GMT -8
Indeed we do. Ok you've gone right off the radar with this reply. First off my work is exceptional not the crap you see coming out of the Philippines on the whole. I am a professionally trained metal worker and served my apprenticeship in Rolls Royces classic division attaining the highest apprentice scores Rolls had ever had to that date and that record still stands today. I can say without doubt I am the only guy on this forum who can make a complete cars bodywork from a few sheets of metal to the highest standard in the world. So as for original? I now work professionally as a clock restorer. This is my full time occupation now. My website fusee clocks states I will disclose everything I have done to 'restore' a clock but I will not marry up parts. This is the same attitude I take when restoring watches. So what you were basically saying earlier was don't worry about the finish not being original (although you would not be able to tell unless I told you this fact) as you can always use a case 'from another watch'. I honestly do not see how this can be better than using the original case other than it has been 'restored' not 'replaced'. Ok my watch has been relumed but it is still the original dial. What point are you trying to make about my 40 year old watch needing the lume replaced because a bad repair in the past had caused the lume to go black and crispy? It's 40 years old and I'm not hiding the fact. Also the quality of the relume is factory. Same goes for the hands. At least they are likely original to the watch and not from some parts draw. So the crystal was replaced? Yes because the original was cracked around the base. Once again it's a 40 year old watch and some glass got broken. Should I have just left it in place? Finally I am not selling this watch! It's my personal watch. So why does it matter what I have done with it? I could have painted mickey mouse on the dial and it doesn't matter to anyone by me as it's my watch and likely not going to be ever up for sale. I just done this thread to show how you can turn a otherwise tierd but HONEST watch into some thing worthy of wearing out any day and being proud of it. Tone My work is exceptional, too. Not everyone who performs 'marriages', as you quite derisively call them, is as ham-fisted about it as the guys in the Philippines are. Neither is everyone who touches up dials, as you have proven. You seem to be quite groused by the idea that what you do is similar to what Philippine sellers do because it is done to a higher standard. Well, I am more than happy to grant you that it is done to a higher standard, and have already told you I am impressed with your efforts. But you ARE doing the same thing, and seem to be rather openly condescending towards people who restore these 40-year-old watches in a different way. Would you poo-poo a 6139 that had it's winding weight replaced? After all, the movement isn't 'original' anymore...right? Seiko sold things like replacement dials and cases for a reason, and there is nothing wrong with using these parts as 1:1 replacements. THEY ARE 1:1 PARTS!
I guess I just find it bizarre that you believe a watch with a case that has had 2% of it's metal completely removed can be considered original and pure, but a watch that has had an identical replacement case with 99% of it's original finish installed has somehow been bastardized. There is another part of the world where this kind of thinking is the norm...
I think you are taking what I have said too personally cobrajet25. Maybe some thing I said struck a soft spot?
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Post by C4L18R3 on Nov 21, 2014 20:20:02 GMT -8
Beautiful work there Tony. That watch is truly JDM! I almost bought one at a small shop in Ginza, Tokyo but they were asking an arm and a leg for it. Haven't seen one as nice until I saw this. Enjoy it!
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Post by mariod on Nov 22, 2014 0:44:58 GMT -8
Great work and result. Thanks for sharing.
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cobrajet25
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"Underweared curmudgeon!"
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Post by cobrajet25 on Nov 22, 2014 1:03:24 GMT -8
My work is exceptional, too. Not everyone who performs 'marriages', as you quite derisively call them, is as ham-fisted about it as the guys in the Philippines are. Neither is everyone who touches up dials, as you have proven. You seem to be quite groused by the idea that what you do is similar to what Philippine sellers do because it is done to a higher standard. Well, I am more than happy to grant you that it is done to a higher standard, and have already told you I am impressed with your efforts. But you ARE doing the same thing, and seem to be rather openly condescending towards people who restore these 40-year-old watches in a different way. Would you poo-poo a 6139 that had it's winding weight replaced? After all, the movement isn't 'original' anymore...right? Seiko sold things like replacement dials and cases for a reason, and there is nothing wrong with using these parts as 1:1 replacements. THEY ARE 1:1 PARTS!
I guess I just find it bizarre that you believe a watch with a case that has had 2% of it's metal completely removed can be considered original and pure, but a watch that has had an identical replacement case with 99% of it's original finish installed has somehow been bastardized. There is another part of the world where this kind of thinking is the norm...
I think you are taking what I have said too personally cobrajet25. Maybe some thing I said struck a soft spot? Or vice-versa? Cheers, brother...I'd wear that Speed-Timer any day!
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Nov 22, 2014 3:17:22 GMT -8
Great work I just love seeing a watch movement restored.
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