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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 22:00:15 GMT -8
You're not insane, Ive thought about it too. This project is all about experimentation, so screw it, I'll add it to the list to try. I've been wondering about graphite powder for the mainspring. Is this a non starter, the worst idea ever or just something nobody has experimented with? I wasn't asking to add it to the experiment but we have nothing to lose 7dfe79adc2f0
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Post by philsinclair on Jan 24, 2015 22:12:45 GMT -8
Hi. I always thought it was avoided because of the danger of some of it escaping the barrel and getting on the hairspring. Cheers Phil
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jan 24, 2015 23:33:44 GMT -8
That's what I suspect, but I'll try it anyway. I enjoy doing wacky stuff. It's always how I get my best ideas. Hi. I always thought it was avoided because of the danger of some of it escaping the barrel and getting on the hairspring. Cheers Phil
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Jan 24, 2015 23:41:08 GMT -8
You're not insane, Ive thought about it too. This project is all about experimentation, so screw it, I'll add it to the list to try. I've been wondering about graphite powder for the mainspring. Is this a non starter, the worst idea ever or just something nobody has experimented with? Ok while we're stepping out of the box, what about getting the barrel teflon coated? Too weird…
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jan 24, 2015 23:54:19 GMT -8
I've actually got the stuff to try this, so I'll add it to the list. You're not insane, Ive thought about it too. This project is all about experimentation, so screw it, I'll add it to the list to try. Ok while we're stepping out of the box, what about getting the barrel teflon coated? To weird…
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jan 26, 2015 4:11:07 GMT -8
Approx 34 hours on the GR mainspring. Awesome! The amplitude only dropped off in the last 12 hours.
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Post by feca67 on Jan 26, 2015 5:18:56 GMT -8
Sorry for being pedantic and a bit slow....can you just confirm, these results so far are your baseline control test? In this post you listed four tests. If I'm following correctly, you now have figures for a new mainspring with (i) wet barrel, and (ii) with braking grease, and (iii) 8201 for the spring, and (iv) not only the arbor lubed. Are you now going to repeat the test and one by one try (i) dry barrel, (ii) without braking grease, (iii) SYNT HP 100 for the spring, and (iv) only the arbor lubed ?? Or have I completely lost the plot?
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jan 27, 2015 15:45:36 GMT -8
Nope you've got it all down. This is what I've done so far - 1. Set up a baseline test with an original, old SEIKO mainspring (standard lubricants) (result - average amplitude, bit of rate deviation) 2. Replaced mainspring with a new Swiss mainspring (GR 2534X, standard lubricants) (result - good amplitude minimal rate deviation) The train is lubricated currently per standard spec, 9010/9103 depending on the pivot. 9010 on the pallet stones. Next test, I'll try running it dry. Sorry for being pedantic and a bit slow....can you just confirm, these results so far are your baseline control test? In this post you listed four tests. If I'm following correctly, you now have figures for a new mainspring with (i) wet barrel, and (ii) with braking grease, and (iii) 8201 for the spring, and (iv) not only the arbor lubed. Are you now going to repeat the test and one by one try (i) dry barrel, (ii) without braking grease, (iii) SYNT HP 100 for the spring, and (iv) only the arbor lubed ?? Or have I completely lost the plot?
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Post by Groundhog66 on Jan 28, 2015 6:54:06 GMT -8
Good stuff, very interesting indeed!
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Post by siralan on Jan 28, 2015 7:14:58 GMT -8
What would be very useful (for me) would be some guidelines around oiling, specifically what, where and how much.
I personally think a picture (if taken reasonably well) paints a 1000 words so this could be relatively simple. I know the Technical Guides do indicate exactly what to do, but I find them a bit confusing with all the exploded parts, lines, words and coloured arrows (but I do appreciate that this is mostly because I'm a beginner here).
I know that photographing this is tricky (unless you've got a helper or a third hand) but just a few annotated (with arrows etc) photos would really help.
Sorry if this request is a bit basic, but it would be a great opportunity to kill two birds with one stone ........
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jan 29, 2015 19:19:36 GMT -8
I agree completely. Lucrication is one of the trickiest parts of being a hobbyist to work out. The diagrams are quite nebulous and without professional training it's difficult to understand. There is some stuff around on how this is done, but I agree it would be valuable if we had a good "2015 edition how to lubricate SEIKO" guide here. What would be very useful (for me) would be some guidelines around oiling, specifically what, where and how much. I personally think a picture (if taken reasonably well) paints a 1000 words so this could be relatively simple. I know the Technical Guides do indicate exactly what to do, but I find them a bit confusing with all the exploded parts, lines, words and coloured arrows (but I do appreciate that this is mostly because I'm a beginner here). I know that photographing this is tricky (unless you've got a helper or a third hand) but just a few annotated (with arrows etc) photos would really help. Sorry if this request is a bit basic, but it would be a great opportunity to kill two birds with one stone ........
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Post by feca67 on Jan 30, 2015 5:34:50 GMT -8
What would be very useful (for me) would be some guidelines around oiling, specifically what, where and how much. I personally think a picture (if taken reasonably well) paints a 1000 words so this could be relatively simple. I know the Technical Guides do indicate exactly what to do, but I find them a bit confusing with all the exploded parts, lines, words and coloured arrows (but I do appreciate that this is mostly because I'm a beginner here). I know that photographing this is tricky (unless you've got a helper or a third hand) but just a few annotated (with arrows etc) photos would really help. Sorry if this request is a bit basic, but it would be a great opportunity to kill two birds with one stone ........ This guy's videos are good. I've watched quite a few and picked up all sorts of tips, including how much oil to use, which is less than I was using... www.youtube.com/user/jewldood
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Myles
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Post by Myles on Jan 30, 2015 7:25:36 GMT -8
This guy's videos are good. I've watched quite a few and picked up all sorts of tips, including how much oil to use, which is less than I was using... I agree. I think I've watched all of his videos. Plus, he looks like Mark from Peep Show. Where's Jez? Myles
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Post by tictoctach on Feb 2, 2015 5:17:26 GMT -8
I agree completely. Lucrication is one of the trickiest parts of being a hobbyist to work out. The diagrams are quite nebulous and without professional training it's difficult to understand. There is some stuff around on how this is done, but I agree it would be valuable if we had a good "2015 edition how to lubricate SEIKO" guide here. Would it be possible as part of the oiling test to check the effect of leaving the escape wheel pivots dry? I didn't save the link, but in the last week or two I read some discussion where there was a recommendation to leave those pivots dry as oiling them lost a lot of amplitude... I'm paraphrasing from memory here, and it's possible they said or meant pallet pivots, not escape. I'm not sure how the escape would have that effect but it might be worth checking if someone found that to be the case. Thanks for all you work putting this thread together! Clair
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Myles
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Post by Myles on Feb 2, 2015 6:26:47 GMT -8
Would it be possible as part of the oiling test to check the effect of leaving the escape wheel pivots dry? I didn't save the link, but in the last week or two I read some discussion where there was a recommendation to leave those pivots dry as oiling them lost a lot of amplitude... I'm paraphrasing from memory here, and it's possible they said or meant pallet pivots, not escape. I'm not sure how the escape would have that effect but it might be worth checking if someone found that to be the case. Thanks for all you work putting this thread together! Clair AFAIK, pallet fork pivots should be left dry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 9:29:07 GMT -8
Would it be possible as part of the oiling test to check the effect of leaving the escape wheel pivots dry? I didn't save the link, but in the last week or two I read some discussion where there was a recommendation to leave those pivots dry as oiling them lost a lot of amplitude... I'm paraphrasing from memory here, and it's possible they said or meant pallet pivots, not escape. I'm not sure how the escape would have that effect but it might be worth checking if someone found that to be the case. Thanks for all you work putting this thread together! Clair AFAIK, pallet fork pivots should be left dry. Yes, it's the palette fork pivots that should be left dry. Early on in my tinkering, I oiled these pivots and never understood why I git such low amplitudes. Randall set me right on that score and if I get low amplitudes now it's something else that's not right. I might add that too much oil on the balance pivots will also drop amplitude.
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Post by tictoctach on Feb 2, 2015 12:33:25 GMT -8
Ah, excellent, I'm glad to see that my memory is at least partially reliable on something I read in the last 2 weeks...
I hope it's possible to show just how sensitive the pallet is to oiling, and what kind of affects the oil has on amplitude. I have seen that too much oil on the balance pivots of a 6309 made it run poorly, and that's a great part of my interest here. Being able to relate how much oiling affects the function of these smaller, lighter movement parts goes a long way toward understanding the whole machine. Great stuff!
Clair
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Feb 3, 2015 3:51:29 GMT -8
Always leave the pallet fork pivots dry. I'll have to do some testing on the balance pivot jewels. The rule of thumb from what I understand is a drop roughly 1/3 of the size of the jewel in the middle. In other news, I've had some success using a "picker upperer" to deal with cap jewels and silly small parts more effectively. www.cousinsuk.com/product/jewel-picker-upper-with-silicone-tips
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Feb 14, 2015 4:51:11 GMT -8
This isn't dead, I've just been flat out with customer jobs.
I've got a TAG Heuer Professional on the bench right now. Nice movement (ETA 2824), but there's a few things that suck on these movements -
1. The tiny click spring on the winding click, surely this could have been integrated into the part like a lot of SEIKO springs are? 2. The sliding pinion just about ALWAYS slips off the yoke. If you take the stem out of these, set it to the handsetting position before you release it to minimise the chance of this happening. If it happens, it's pretty much a dial off job. 3. The autowind system is straight from the 50's and it sucks. Make sure you lubricate it correctly otherwise it will wear excessively.
The positives -
1. Awesome amplitude 2. Pretty much near COSC spec 3. Goes together really nicely and everything is executed with logic.
Lubricant wise, there's not too many surprises with these, but pay attention to the autowind system.
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Post by cannop on Feb 16, 2015 11:05:38 GMT -8
With regards to point number two, you don't even have to remove the movement from the case to reset a dislodged yoke on a 2824. I outline the method I use on a Venus 203 movement but it's good for most movements with a separate barrel bridge including the ETA2824, it saves a shed load of time. thewatchbloke.co.uk/2015/01/06/a-dislodged-yoke-an-alternative-approach/
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