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Post by earthphase on Mar 22, 2015 18:35:15 GMT -8
I didn't want to jack that other thread so I started a new topic.
So a 6139 chrono should always be left running? Just non stop?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 18:41:58 GMT -8
I didn't want to jack that other thread so I started a new topic. So a 6139 chrono should always be left running? Just non stop? Basically, that is the advice of those who know. Leaving the chroo running causes less wear on the clutch which is fully engaged during this time. Otherwise the clutch has to slip(friction and wear) when it is stopped. Granted, this is long term wear but still, if the watch is worn full time or even regularly in rotation, it's best to leave the chrono running...and you have that great big seconds sweep hand
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tritto
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Post by tritto on Mar 22, 2015 18:44:50 GMT -8
I'll leave it up to the experts on whether you should from a mechanical perspective. From a personal perspective, I love to see the big seconds hand running so I leave them running.
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cobrajet25
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Post by cobrajet25 on Mar 22, 2015 21:34:45 GMT -8
Keep it running. Having the chrono disengaged on these is like having the clutch pedal depressed in a car. It puts pressure on the clutch spring. Over time, this can weaken it a little and lead to slippage.
When the clutch slips in a 6139 and the chrono is running, the seconds hand is "thrown" a tiny bit every time the watch ticks. This will cause the chrono to gain time when compared to the hour and minute hands.
Took us quite a while to figure that one out back in the day!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 1:48:10 GMT -8
I totally agree with whats been said through my findings over the past 12 months.
I leave them running and always set the balance up whilst under the chrono function. I buy every single chrono wheel for 6138's & 9's I see for sale providing they are not stupidly expensive. A chrono wheel will cost around $40 for NOS plus the fitting.
I had a NOS 6139-6005 that had never been used. The chrono wheel on that needed adjusting as over time where it had been left disengaged the clutch pressure fingers had lost tension. This is why when you buy a 6138 or 6139 always ask if the chrono function works and the watch continues running and keeping the same time when it is engaged. When they are malfunctioning the watch will stop normally when the chrono is disengaged.
As long as the watch is well serviced there should be very little wear from leaving it all running. Just think of dress watches, those all have secondhands active all the time and it doesn't do them any halm. As I say I'd always make sure your watch is given a proper service as soon as you can afford one and then it should last another 40+ years no problem.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 1:50:42 GMT -8
I'll leave it up to the experts on whether you should from a mechanical perspective. From a personal perspective, I love to see the big seconds hand running so I leave them running. Me also Plus everyone says "your watch has stopped" as they see the second hand not moving if the chrono function is off.
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Post by 69ChevelleSS on Mar 23, 2015 5:18:03 GMT -8
I'll leave it up to the experts on whether you should from a mechanical perspective. From a personal perspective, I love to see the big seconds hand running so I leave them running. Me also Plus everyone says "your watch has stopped" as they see the second hand not moving if the chrono function is off. I can't tell you how many times that happened to me when I was younger and first inherited my Dad's 6139 (before the crown broke and it sat in a drawer for 20+ years).
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Post by earthphase on Mar 23, 2015 5:27:39 GMT -8
Alright. Running it is.
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Post by SeikoPsycho on Mar 23, 2015 6:18:00 GMT -8
That would be the best approach. I use to be under the impression that if keeping the chrono stopped did cause excessive wear then we would see more 6139's with vertical clutch issues. For me personally, I've only seen a small percentage of vertical clutch issues verses the number of 6139's that have passed through my hands. That being said, I've decided to play it "better safe then sorry".
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Post by earthphase on Mar 23, 2015 7:10:46 GMT -8
Thanks guys for all the info.
Is a vertical clutch still used in today's more modern chrono references?
And essentially regarding the 6139, the chrono when stopped is being forced to stop? Naturally it wants to run?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 10:03:04 GMT -8
Thanks guys for all the info. Is a vertical clutch still used in today's more modern chrono references? And essentially regarding the 6139, the chrono when stopped is being forced to stop? Naturally it wants to run? The 701x series seems better but that said I don't think they sold anywhere near the numbers they did of the 6139 movements but I could be wrong. I personally have only overhauled a couple of these movements and they seemed fine. The two problems with the clutch that I can see are if left too long as I said the clutch fingers take on that position not allowing the clutch to fully disengage which then hangs the movement on the coupling levers. The second problem which siralan has pointed out more than once recently is rust forms between the clutch friction plates within the chrono wheel making it malfunction. If the watch is in use and you just make sure to engage the chrono every so often, say once a week or even once a month I don't see it being a problem for years to come. The problem is these watches stopped being worn years ago in some cases and were neglected. We then get them and instantly start wearing them again after decades not being used and do not get them serviced. The oils and such go funky and then we have issues. The actual engineering is superb but I think a less complicated system such as Omega used is also less likely to fail if left standing for years apon end. Just my take on it but I'm no expert this is just as I see it from a engineering background.
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Post by sweephand on Mar 23, 2015 13:05:45 GMT -8
The Citizen 8100 and 8110 chronographs are also a vertical clutch / column wheel type, and this is what I was advised by a master watch-maker who has serviced two of mine and a good many others, which I have included in blog article:
.....the column wheel/vertical clutch design of the movement means that it is advised to leave the chronograph function running to minimise wear – this of course happily results in the seconds counter running continuously as would be the case in a non-chronograph piece. However, it’s also worth noting that leaving the chronograph running all the time could result in the clutch parts seizing together, so it is advised that sometimes the watch should be run with the chronograph stopped
Stephen
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Post by SpinDoctor on Mar 23, 2015 14:54:12 GMT -8
How does constant running G of the chronograph effect power reserve?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:01:51 GMT -8
How does constant running G of the chronograph effect power reserve? My guess is that running the chrono will not affect the reserve as much as not running it. When running, the connection is direct but when not running there is slipping going on(friction and drag) so likely a shorter reserve. With the quartz units, running the chrono will consume more power since an extra motor is in use.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 17:54:39 GMT -8
Running the chronograph function should not use up additional main spring duration. Running say an alarm would as it will require additional power to complete that task but the way the 6139 chronograph system works it just means the center wheel is disengaged when the chrono function is switched off. The movements gear train is still making the same amount of rotations for the duration of the main spring. If the movement is dirty or worn that could change but due to no fault of the design just lack of servicing where the movement struggles to keep going as the power drops down as the main spring uncoils.
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Post by dringer on Mar 23, 2015 18:38:18 GMT -8
A few weeks ago I bought a very nice 7A38 white dial, stainless bracelet. The owner's manual specifically mentions battery life for those who run the chrono function full time. It's 2 years without, and 2 years with. So apparently the use of the quartz 7A38's chrono function doesn't use much power. Nevertheless, the fact they mentioned running the chrono full time indicates that they understand that owners do it in significant numbers. I don't think they've ever warned against it, for either mechanical or quartz movements.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 8:29:45 GMT -8
A few weeks ago I bought a very nice 7A38 white dial, stainless bracelet. The owner's manual specifically mentions battery life for those who run the chrono function full time. It's 2 years without, and 2 years with. So apparently the use of the quartz 7A38's chrono function doesn't use much power. Nevertheless, the fact they mentioned running the chrono full time indicates that they understand that owners do it in significant numbers. I don't think they've ever warned against it, for either mechanical or quartz movements. The recommendations for leaving the mechanical chronos with vertical clutches running come from experienced watchmakers who have seen what happens when they are not run or left running. If Seiko were making these movements today, I'm pretty sure they would be making the recommendation. In spite of what Seiko wrote or you read, it does not make logical sense that running extra motors won't shorten the battery life. Personal experiences of quartz chrono owners should bear this out.
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Post by dringer on Mar 24, 2015 18:13:20 GMT -8
I'm just referencing what the manual said. I don't necessarily believe it. Actually, although I can speculate about it, I don't have information or experience to say one way or the other. I can say that, for the past 18 years, I have not run my quartz chronos full time. My mechanical I do.
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Post by seikoholic on Mar 27, 2015 18:46:25 GMT -8
I didn't want to jack that other thread so I started a new topic. So a 6139 chrono should always be left running? Just non stop? My take on it. Mechanical vertical column chronos: run non-vertical column chronos: don't run quartz chronos: don't run
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Mar 27, 2015 21:05:38 GMT -8
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I've posted it to my site, that should get you a few more views on YouTube.
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