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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 16:44:05 GMT -8
SEIKO Diver's Made In Japan (JDM) vs K Series (International)?. I am considering a Seiko Turtle, but what's the real difference between the (JDM) Made In Japan vs the (K) International version's. 1. Are the JDM version's that have "Made In Japan" on the dial & case back, are they truly Made In Japan? - e.g The cases , 4R36 movement, assembly. 2. I take it the K series for the International market & are cased in China with China made cases & most likely have a Malaysian/Singapore or Chinese made version of the 4R36 movement, with the watch fully assembled in China? 3. Anyone have any real concrete knowledge they like to share with this regard, also which one will you buy or recommend. "Thanks in advance" 
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jun 25, 2021 19:56:38 GMT -8
Geday,
Great question.
There is *nothing* in the low-mid range SEIKO's that is made in Japan.
Only the GS series now is made in Japan from what I understand. Even then, probably the case/movement plate blanks are made elsewhere and they are finished in Japan.
Typically cases are made in China and the movements are made in one of several factories in Singapore, Hong Kong and probably China now as well.
So there is no "secret sauce", better finishing or anything as some people claim. If the finish is better it's because SEIKO's robot was better calibrated than usual the day it spat the movement/case out.
As for the J and K designations, it simply comes down to labelling laws and the old trope that the Japanese always keep the best stuff for themselves (specifically because they have the jewel count on the dial). The additional dial print and/or made in Japan print is simply because labelling laws allow that to be said in Japan, while in other countries, they can't.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 20:25:16 GMT -8
Thanks for your reply Adrian-VTA,
So even the models 'J' with the Made in Japan label on the dial & on the case back are Made in China with movements from Singapore, assembled + cased in China correct me if am wrong to assume this?
So here in Australia, Seiko's many low to mid tier divers models have a cased in China sticker on case back. So theres no point buying a Made in Japan labelled 'J' version from Seiya Japan online shop, as it is most likely exactly the same as the K version sold here in Australian Seiko retailers
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Jun 26, 2021 0:13:50 GMT -8
It's simple, for all parts K = J, J = K or any combination thereof. Some parts are endorsed with Made in Japan or Japan.
It's a placebo effect.
Even George Daneils continued to state LONDON on his watches when he was in the Isle of Man.
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Post by SeikoSoMatic on Jun 26, 2021 0:57:32 GMT -8
The "Made in Japan" watches seem to be favored by some who believe them to be qualitatively better, and are often deemed to be worth more when buying or selling.
I have never seen any evidence that the MIJs are better than the Ks.
Seiko's QC problems can be found across the entire range, including of course the JDM models.
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jun 26, 2021 1:52:57 GMT -8
That's pretty much it. The Made in Japan just looks nice, but there's zero difference between the K and the J otherwise. As for resale value? Well they are being manufactured at present so the resale difference is insignificant. I'd say it's unlikely to be a consideration after they end. So you may as well just get the best deal. Thanks for your reply Adrian-VTA, So even the models 'J' with the Made in Japan label on the dial & on the case back are Made in China with movements from Singapore, assembled + cased in China correct me if am wrong to assume this? So here in Australia, Seiko's many low to mid tier divers models have a cased in China sticker on case back. So theres no point buying a Made in Japan labelled 'J' version from Seiya Japan online shop, as it is most likely exactly the same as the K version sold here in Australian Seiko retailers |
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Post by huangcjz on Jul 1, 2021 14:16:44 GMT -8
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suntzu
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Post by suntzu on Jul 1, 2021 15:29:54 GMT -8
This argument is absolutely maddening.
I also believe dial markings are based on what market they are intended for to be in compliance with that country's laws. I am wearing a Gen 1 Orange Monster today with "Malaysia" on the dial found only on dials sold at authorized dealers in the USA. It's the EXACT same watch as all other Gen 1 Orange Monsters, but to comply with US law, the place of manufacturing needs to be designated. Guess it makes my dial rarer   I believe only Grand Seiko is all made in house in Japan. You can watch You Tube videos of the making of a Grand Seiko at their factory in Japan. They seem to make everything.
"A cool video from Grand Seiko that shows how a Grand Seiko watch and automatic 9S movements are made in Japan, from the cutting and polishing of the smallest components, all the way to the 2nd part of the video from 03:00 that gives you insight into the Shizuku-ishi Watch Studio where assembly, testing, and final inspection happens."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 15:57:58 GMT -8
^^ Interesting, one side of the watches case back say's "Made in Japan" & the inside has "China case"  that's a let down, but am not surprised. So would a Marine Master 300 have the same going on, Made in Japan on case back & China on the inside & they cost 3k+, they are said to have movement 8L35 made & assembled in the Shizuku-ishi Watch Studio? |
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Jul 1, 2021 19:27:28 GMT -8
Interesting video, which can be anywhere in the world, in that certain aspects of the work can be seen in my man shed.
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jul 2, 2021 1:26:41 GMT -8
I'd be shocked if the 8L was made in Japan. From what I understand, it's pretty much only the GS range that's japan made. ^^ Interesting, one side of the watches case back say's "Made in Japan" & the inside has "China case" that's a let down, but am not surprised. So would a Marine Master 300 have the same going on, Made in Japan on case back & China on the inside & they cost 3k+, they are said to have movement 8L35 made & assembled in the Shizuku-ishi Watch Studio? |
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Fergus
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Post by Fergus on Jul 2, 2021 2:26:14 GMT -8
As I have one, calibercorner.com/seiko-caliber-8l35/though it does not say where the parts are manufactured. China and many other countries have the technology. The virtual tour is interesting and heightens the fact I must get...  For those interested, as some have asked here there and everywhere, the first 2 digits of the serial number reflects its date of manufacture. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2021 4:05:39 GMT -8
I asked Seiko directly, they advised the 8L35 is hand assembled in the Shizuku-ishi Watch Studio Northern Japan. So this is why watches with 8L35 movements are so highly priced, basically a GS 9S55 with larger balance wheel to provide extra torque to drive the larger hands of a dive watch.
Seiko's Quote -
"The Seiko Marine Master 300 (8L35) is made and assembled at the Shizukuishi Watch Studio in the Iwate Prefecture Japan, the facility is focused on the production of exclusive Seiko models that require extensive hand assembly by the team of Seiko's top watchmakers".
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Post by aladinsane on Jul 8, 2021 13:19:07 GMT -8
And you believed them? I'm not falling for that.
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HiBeat
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Post by HiBeat on Jul 8, 2021 14:06:07 GMT -8
And you believed them? I'm not falling for that. What? You don't buy that the 8L movements are hand assembled in Japan at the Shizuku-ishi Watch Studio? They most certainly are. It's part of the deal.
It's OK to question what us knuckleheads post here because we are all human but Seiko Corporate has always made it clear the 8L35 and 8L55 are assembled by hand.
Why is that even an issue to question ?
Read this, it is but one of many many instances where they describe this:
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HiBeat
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Post by HiBeat on Jul 8, 2021 14:11:23 GMT -8
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming........
FWIW the lowly $20 USD 7S26C from Seiko USA parts department comes with a rotor stamped "MADE IN JAPAN". Now that is up to debate ! What does that mean and still adhere to the laws around country of origin statements both as an export from Japan and as an import into the USA - that I do not know.
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Post by aladinsane on Jul 8, 2021 15:35:01 GMT -8
No, I dont believe them. Back in the olden days when I was a frequent poster on the original scwf, I thought that had been debunked.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2021 16:44:06 GMT -8
 Direct from Seiko official advertising - Movement
The watch is powered by the 8L35 movement which was developed expressly for diver's watches and is assembled by hand at the Shizukuishi Watch Studio.
Click Link
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Adrian-VTA
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Post by Adrian-VTA on Jul 8, 2021 17:22:13 GMT -8
Thanks for taking the time to email them directly. I am officially shocked.
I'll concede probably only the assembly is done in Japan, but hey, the Swiss aren't any better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2021 17:50:20 GMT -8
Thanks for taking the time to email them directly. I am officially shocked. I'll concede probably only the assembly is done in Japan, but hey, the Swiss aren't any better. "They did clearly state the 8L35 is Made & Hand Assembled in the Shizukuishi Watch Studio in the Iwate Prefecture Japan". Am more than happy with Seiko's statement, it clear it up for me  |
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that's a let down, but am not surprised. 
