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Post by dapellegrini on Aug 23, 2023 17:56:36 GMT -8
Is there someone on the internet that has put together a list of the most valuable Vintage Seikos - say like top 10 or 15 in descending order? I would say it should exclude things that are just stupid rare (e.g. 5718-8000 Counter Chrono) - and focusing on (relatively) common things, like the Willard, Pogue, Bruce Lee, 62MAS, etc?
If it doesn't exist, perhaps we can put together a list here?
It seems the divers rule the list in terms of resale value, then perhaps some of the 6139/6139's, then what? Early Grand Seikos? The 1964 World Timers? Early mono pushers?
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cd_god
Is a Permanent Fixture
Finna set up a HOOD next door to your richie phuk suburban mansion
Posts: 12,366 
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Post by cd_god on Aug 23, 2023 20:35:19 GMT -8
In no particular order:
5718 Chronographs
6215-7000 300M
6159-7000 300M
62MAS 6217 200M
18K 5645-8000 GS on 18K bracelet
18K Quartz Astron
J14070 Platinum Grand Seiko
18K 4520 Astronomical Chronometer
61GS Grand Seiko VFA
6306 Scubapro 150M
6306 150M MSST Expedition
6105 150M DVDP Expedition
And I think there was an 18K GS in the hammered finish Astron case as well or maybe it was the woven textured Astronomical Chronometer case.
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Post by nzwatchdoctor on Aug 23, 2023 23:27:06 GMT -8
Would my Tokei Zara fit in there?
There are two on ebay for $4500 and $5200 NZ
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Post by 7s26 on Aug 24, 2023 4:36:53 GMT -8
Any Alpinist from the 90's, early 2000's for sure.
In ca. a decade an SKX007 will probably be on the list and considered vintage (a 1996 serial 007 is already vintage IMO). So many mods out there and with NOS shirking, a virgin/untouched 007's price will only go one direction IMO.
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trilo
WS Benefactor
Posts: 2,109
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Post by trilo on Aug 24, 2023 5:01:38 GMT -8
7A28: 7000 and 7090.
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Post by 69ChevelleSS on Aug 24, 2023 7:10:44 GMT -8
The Ti 7089 on original bracelet is also pretty desirable and hard to find. |
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Post by nordlys on Aug 24, 2023 9:32:21 GMT -8
The 45-series GS VFAs, particularly the 4580-7010 and 4580-7020, are by far the most valuable. Apparently less than 100 4580s were made across all references (4580-7000, 4580-7010, and 4580-7020)
They rarely come up for sale, but prices will be north of $30K USD for one in good condition.
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Post by Daini36k on Aug 24, 2023 12:37:08 GMT -8
I feel personally aggrieved that none of the other three Daini 4580 VFA references (4580-7000, 4580-7010, 4580-7020) are on your list  They’re generally many orders of magnitude rarer than those that are included. In no particular order:
5718 Chronographs
6215-7000 300M
6159-7000 300M
62MAS 6217 200M
18K 5645-8000 GS on 18K bracelet
18K Quartz Astron
J14070 Platinum Grand Seiko
18K 4520 Astronomical Chronometer
61GS Grand Seiko VFA
6306 Scubapro 150M
6306 150M MSST Expedition
6105 150M DVDP Expedition
And I think there was an 18K GS in the hammered finish Astron case as well or maybe it was the woven textured Astronomical Chronometer case.
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Post by Daini36k on Aug 24, 2023 12:38:52 GMT -8
The 45-series GS VFAs, particularly the 4580-7010 and 4580-7020, are by far the most valuable. Apparently less than 100 4580s were made across all references (4580-7000, 4580-7010, and 4580-7020) They rarely come up for sale, but prices will be north of $30K USD for one in good condition. I get the 7020s, but why do you believe the 7010s are rarer than the 7000? |
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Post by leffemonster on Aug 24, 2023 13:05:03 GMT -8
I feel personally aggrieved that none of the other three Daini 4580 VFA references (4580-7000, 4580-7010, 4580-7020) are on your list They’re generally many orders of magnitude rarer than those that are included. Bear in mind the OP did suggest that the list “…should exclude things that are just super rare…” Jus’ sayin’ |
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trilo
WS Benefactor
Posts: 2,109
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Post by trilo on Aug 24, 2023 13:07:57 GMT -8
Leffe poined it out first.
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Post by Daini36k on Aug 24, 2023 14:41:55 GMT -8
I feel personally aggrieved that none of the other three Daini 4580 VFA references (4580-7000, 4580-7010, 4580-7020) are on your list They’re generally many orders of magnitude rarer than those that are included. Bear in mind the OP did suggest that the list “…should exclude things that are just super rare…” Jus’ sayin’ Ah. Fair enough... I'd like to see a list of unicorns too though, even if separate. |
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cd_god
Is a Permanent Fixture
Finna set up a HOOD next door to your richie phuk suburban mansion
Posts: 12,366
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Post by cd_god on Aug 24, 2023 20:30:33 GMT -8
I feel personally aggrieved that none of the other three Daini 4580 VFA references (4580-7000, 4580-7010, 4580-7020) are on your list They’re generally many orders of magnitude rarer than those that are included. In no particular order:
5718 Chronographs
6215-7000 300M
6159-7000 300M
62MAS 6217 200M
18K 5645-8000 GS on 18K bracelet
18K Quartz Astron
J14070 Platinum Grand Seiko
18K 4520 Astronomical Chronometer
61GS Grand Seiko VFA
6306 Scubapro 150M
6306 150M MSST Expedition
6105 150M DVDP Expedition
And I think there was an 18K GS in the hammered finish Astron case as well or maybe it was the woven textured Astronomical Chronometer case.
There was no mention of Suwa in the post.
Any hate or decimation against any entity is entirely a self hating or media lead perception.
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Post by nordlys on Aug 25, 2023 6:07:44 GMT -8
The 45-series GS VFAs, particularly the 4580-7010 and 4580-7020, are by far the most valuable. Apparently less than 100 4580s were made across all references (4580-7000, 4580-7010, and 4580-7020) They rarely come up for sale, but prices will be north of $30K USD for one in good condition. I get the 7020s, but why do you believe the 7010s are rarer than the 7000? Not "rarer." I said more valuable. I don't know the exact production numbers for the 7000s or 7010s, but needless to say they're both ridiculously rare. But the 7000s aren't nearly as desirable, probably because their design is more "quirky" than the more traditional cases and dials of the 7010s and 7020s. The 7000s still pop up on Yahoo JP from time to time, and they seem to go for $10-15K when they do. I have not seen a real 7010 or 7020 pop up in quite some time (although there's plenty of fakes where they drop a reprinted dial into a KS 4502-7010). When the real 7010s or 7020s pop up, they go for $30K+ now. |
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Post by Daini36k on Aug 25, 2023 7:59:28 GMT -8
I personally love the 7000s and think they work much better in person than in pictures. They're ridiculously charming in an odd-ball way, and unlike the 7010, can't be mistaken for anything other than a VFA.
The real 7020s though are just awe-inspiring.
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Post by gerald on Aug 25, 2023 16:00:51 GMT -8
I get the 7020s, but why do you believe the 7010s are rarer than the 7000? Not "rarer." I said more valuable. I don't know the exact production numbers for the 7000s or 7010s, but needless to say they're both ridiculously rare. But the 7000s aren't nearly as desirable, probably because their design is more "quirky" than the more traditional cases and dials of the 7010s and 7020s. The 7000s still pop up on Yahoo JP from time to time, and they seem to go for $10-15K when they do. I have not seen a real 7010 or 7020 pop up in quite some time (although there's plenty of fakes where they drop a reprinted dial into a KS 4502-7010). When the real 7010s or 7020s pop up, they go for $30K+ now. The -7010's are definitely rarer than the -7000's. Going by public sales over the last decade, twice the number of specific examples (not double counting where the same watch has traded hands more than once) of -7000's have traded hands compared to the -7010's. The -7000's were made in two batches - first batch in June 1969, and the second batch in February 1970. The -7010's were all made in a single month - July 1970. |
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Post by nordlys on Aug 26, 2023 8:58:32 GMT -8
Not "rarer." I said more valuable. I don't know the exact production numbers for the 7000s or 7010s, but needless to say they're both ridiculously rare. But the 7000s aren't nearly as desirable, probably because their design is more "quirky" than the more traditional cases and dials of the 7010s and 7020s. The 7000s still pop up on Yahoo JP from time to time, and they seem to go for $10-15K when they do. I have not seen a real 7010 or 7020 pop up in quite some time (although there's plenty of fakes where they drop a reprinted dial into a KS 4502-7010). When the real 7010s or 7020s pop up, they go for $30K+ now. The -7010's are definitely rarer than the -7000's. Going by public sales over the last decade, twice the number of specific examples (not double counting where the same watch has traded hands more than once) of -7000's have traded hands compared to the -7010's. The -7000's were made in two batches - first batch in June 1969, and the second batch in February 1970. The -7010's were all made in a single month - July 1970. Interesting to know about the two batches of -7000s. Thanks for the info Gerald! But since we still don't know the exact production numbers within those batches of 7000s and 7010s (Seiko is tight-lipped about such things), it hard to determine whether one is significantly rarer than the other. Public sales numbers are a rather poor indicator of production numbers, as a larger total number (not double counting) of 7000s appearing on the market relative to the 7010s may simply indicate that people are holding on to the 7010s. I do know that the same real 7000s seem to keep reappearing on the market every few years, whereas once a real 7010 sells, it hardly ever reappears again (at least on a public sales platforms... who knows how many trade hands in private transactions). I know you own a few of these 4580s, so you probably have your finger on the pulse more than I. I'm simply playing devils advocate here and pointing out that, in the absence of exact production and/or sales records directly from Seiko, comments regarding rarity are all conjecture. But judging by the more rapid disappearance and less frequent reappearance of 7010s on the market relative to the 7000s, I think we can conclude that the former are more desirable. |
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Post by Daini36k on Aug 27, 2023 2:06:39 GMT -8
Owning both, which do you prefer Gerald?
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Post by gerald on Aug 27, 2023 22:56:30 GMT -8
The -7010's are definitely rarer than the -7000's. Going by public sales over the last decade, twice the number of specific examples (not double counting where the same watch has traded hands more than once) of -7000's have traded hands compared to the -7010's. The -7000's were made in two batches - first batch in June 1969, and the second batch in February 1970. The -7010's were all made in a single month - July 1970. Interesting to know about the two batches of -7000s. Thanks for the info Gerald! But since we still don't know the exact production numbers within those batches of 7000s and 7010s (Seiko is tight-lipped about such things), it hard to determine whether one is significantly rarer than the other. Public sales numbers are a rather poor indicator of production numbers, as a larger total number (not double counting) of 7000s appearing on the market relative to the 7010s may simply indicate that people are holding on to the 7010s. I do know that the same real 7000s seem to keep reappearing on the market every few years, whereas once a real 7010 sells, it hardly ever reappears again (at least on a public sales platforms... who knows how many trade hands in private transactions). I know you own a few of these 4580s, so you probably have your finger on the pulse more than I. I'm simply playing devils advocate here and pointing out that, in the absence of exact production and/or sales records directly from Seiko, comments regarding rarity are all conjecture. But judging by the more rapid disappearance and less frequent reappearance of 7010s on the market relative to the 7000s, I think we can conclude that the former are more desirable. I stated “are rarer”, not “fewer were manufactured”. In many ways it is largely irrelevant what the relative production volumes were, what matters is their scarcity today.I’m interested in your statement that “the same real 7000s seem to keep reappearing on the market every few years”. Could you provide some listings where you have found this to be the case? I only have records of 11 sales in Japan of the -7000 between 2012 and today, and have not identified any duplicates. I only have full case serial numbers for four of these (960011 sold in March 2020, 960067 sold in August 2019, 960400 sold in October 2022, and 020093 sold in April 2019), and partial case serials (all 96xxxx) for four more that sold between 2015 and 2019. |
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Post by nordlys on Aug 28, 2023 8:04:09 GMT -8
I stated “are rarer”, not “fewer were manufactured”. In many ways it is largely irrelevant what the relative production volumes were, what matters is their scarcity today. I’m interested in your statement that “the same real 7000s seem to keep reappearing on the market every few years”. Could you provide some listings where you have found this to be the case? I only have records of 11 sales in Japan of the -7000 between 2012 and today, and have not identified any duplicates. I only have full case serial numbers for four of these (960011 sold in March 2020, 960067 sold in August 2019, 960400 sold in October 2022, and 020093 sold in April 2019), and partial case serials (all 96xxxx) for four more that sold between 2015 and 2019. I understand your interpretation of rare as well. And I don't really want to argue semantics. So, I'll certainly agree that the 7010s are scarcer than the 7000s on today's market. I don't keep detailed records of serial numbers. I simply remember distinguishing characteristics of the watches. One recent example of a relisted 4580-7000 was a watch with a very obvious crack in the bottom half of the bezel. I remember seeing this one online around the time I started getting deeper into vintage Seiko collecting, so around 2016-2017. Then it recently popped up again at a watch fair in Ginza. The crack is in the exact same spot, so I doubt it could be two different watches. Antiwatchman also had a 4580-7000 that sold about two or three years ago for ≈$10-12K at the time if I recall. The position of the scratches on the caseback of that watch look very, very similar to one that was sold on Yahoo JP back in 2011 (I remember because I was combing the internet at that time to try and find where this watch came from. In hindsight, I probably should have bought that one from antiwatchman). |
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They’re generally many orders of magnitude rarer than those that are included. 