Early 6139-6000 Dial-Back Codes?

[dapellegrini]

I've got a great "93" serial'd 6139-6000, with a dial back code of 8N.  I believe the earliest -6000 was from "92", right?  Curious if anyone here has other data points or context or thoughts?  I know we have at least a few Pogue Hoarders around here

At first I thought "parts watch", but I'm not so sure, as there were no 8N, 8D or 91 models...  perhaps a large early run of dial went into these 92 and 93's?  Has anyone else had a 92 or 93 opened up?

[HiBeat]

I am seeing 8D on the dial.

We have seen other dials marked 8D but can't recall if they were on -6000 or -6010s.

Very cool.  I think I have more than few March 1969s in my stash.  I should pull some dials to see but truth is I don't want to create a bunch of work especially getting the hands back on requiring pulling and returning the autowind assembly.


Interestingly March 1969 is the month you see so many early "TAD" dial SpeedTimers, much more so than Feb or April 1969s.  

PS - for this thread it might be worth mentioning there are few known Jan 1969 6139-6010s.   So Pogues only February 1969 earliest but I will not be surprised if some day a Jan 1960 -6000 Pogue appears.    

[dapellegrini]

This is a blue T AD dial, acquired from a trusted member here, and in great shape.  It is with John Sachs right now getting a spa treatment.  I also see 8D, but John thought it says 8N - and has it in hand.  I didn't challenge him on it, perhaps he just mistyped?

[Fergus]

My 69 (95####) 6000 proof/proof has a 9.6 dial.

[dapellegrini]

Fergus, remind me, is the common thinking that the dial date should match or pre-date the case date, but not come after?  Too much information in my head at the moment, and I think you are saying you have a strange one too, in a different vein?

HiBeat - I did ask John to double check, he still thinks it says 8N in person

[Fergus]

Oct 18, 2023 7:36:53 GMT -8 dapellegrini said:

Fergus , remind me, is the common thinking that the dial date should match or pre-date the case date, but not come after?  Too much information in my head at the moment, and I think you are saying you have a strange one too, in a different vein?

HiBeat - I did ask John to double check, he still thinks it says 8N in person

As far as I understand a few months either side is OK.

[HiBeat]

Oct 18, 2023 7:36:53 GMT -8 dapellegrini said:

Fergus , remind me, is the common thinking that the dial date should match or pre-date the case date, but not come after?  Too much information in my head at the moment, and I think you are saying you have a strange one too, in a different vein?

HiBeat - I did ask John to double check, he still thinks it says 8N in person

 So I totally believe that he sees an 8N in person and I bet I would too.

But this photo ?    If that isn't an 8D I will go get eye surgery tomorrow

[dapellegrini]

I'm with you, but that's the only view I've had of it...  

[dapellegrini]

Vette Enthusiast confirms 8N!

[Fergus]

N or D may only be 1 day. Dials began production in October...so it might be O...to my old eyes. I'm getting new glasses in 7 days.

From Plus9Time,

If you look at the time when automatic chronographs were being released widely to the public for purchase it would seem that the Seiko 6139 came to market by at least May 1969. The Heuer, Breitling and Hamilton “Chronomatic” models were announced on March 3rd and public sales began from July. The Zenith El Primero was publicly announced in January but ended up being the last of the three to reach the market when it went on sale in the third quarter of the year.



Update: During his research for the book “The History of the 5 Sports Speed-Timer - birth of the Seiko automatic chronograph” author Sadao Ryugo was able to view various internal documents, blueprints, and company materials held at Seiko Epson. In this research the documents showed that the prototype model was completed in August 1968. The initial 6139 model designs and samples were completed in September 1968. In October the mass production of movements and case parts began.

[Rod]

I'm sending a Feb 69 6139-6000 to Adrian for a little adjustment, Whilst he has the dial off I'll get him to post a photo of the backside (obverse?)
R

[dapellegrini]

Rod - excellent!  Obverse = the front side of a coin, Reverse = the back side...  not sure if it applies more broadly.

[dapellegrini]

Fergus thanks for that snippet.  I have wondered how long it took from production date stamped on a Seiko for it to make it to the sales counter.  This suggests 3 months, at least for an "all new" model at the end of the 60's.

[Vette Enthusiast]

This pic should clear up any ambiguity on the dial date code.  8N.

[Fergus]

Wish we had had that pic a while back 

[rainier]

Oct 19, 2023 3:03:13 GMT -8 Rod said:

I'm sending a Feb 69 6139-6000 to Adrian for a little adjustment, Whilst he has the dial off I'll get him to post a photo of the backside (obverse?)
R

Did you ever find out what your dial back code was from Adrian?

[HiBeat]

8N dial codes have been seen before, not sure if only on 6139-6010 or if also -6000's.

Wickedly cool to see that 2nd photo.  Not sure how it could be the same dial as shown in that first photo but that's an N for sure !

[SALVO]

Hello everybody. My 6139 6000 from March '69, 93XXXXX has a 8 D dial.

[rainier]

I'll update this thread with dial back codes when I can get around to getting these two 6000's serviced:
Feb '69 
Mar '69

[Rod]

Apr 28, 2024 10:37:16 GMT -8 rainier said:

Oct 19, 2023 3:03:13 GMT -8 Rod said:

I'm sending a Feb 69 6139-6000 to Adrian for a little adjustment, Whilst he has the dial off I'll get him to post a photo of the backside (obverse?)
R

Did you ever find out what your dial back code was from Adrian?

The watch was stolen in transit...