The Vietnam Seiko MAC-V SOG Operator's watch.
Feb 6, 2014 1:27:55 GMT -8
donciccio, bertnet, and 1 more like this
Post by cobrajet25 on Feb 6, 2014 1:27:55 GMT -8
About five or six years ago I heard rumors of a Seiko watch that was issued by the US Government to Special Forces units in Vietnam. I came across an old post on MWR where this very watch was discussed, and a picture of an actual issued watch was presented as an excerpt from a book on Special Forces operations in Vietnam called "Running Recon". Turns out there actually was a Seiko watch which was issued by the Counter Insurgency Support Office (CISO) to Military Assistance Command-Vietnam, Studies and Observation Group (MAC-V SOG) personnel.
In order to be of use to a counterinsurgency soldier, this watch had to be "sterile" (no military markings). Often, the Special Forces guys using them were not operating in areas where they were officially supposed to be. Consequently, there would be no real way to differentiate them from ordinary watches sold through civilian channels...they didn't WANT them differentiated. Other than watches actually owned by Special Forces soldiers, it's anyone's guess as to whether a particular watch was issued or not, so it is difficult to determine exactly which models were handed out. After doing some light research, I discovered that the model in question, or at least ONE of them, was the 6119-810x. I got this one a couple weeks ago, and before I could do anything with it the watch was lost in the shuffle of a house move. This is a 6119-8100, and dates to April, 1969. Here is a pic of it, along with part of the article in question which shows the issued watch...
Apparently, however, this was not the only model that was issued by CISO during this period. Below is a picture of two watches which were actually issued by MAC-V SOG to named Special Forces operators.
According to "specialforceshistory.com"...
The Recon Watch
The black faced Seiko watches were purchased directly from the manufacturer in bulk by Ben Baker who was the department head of CISO (Counter Insurgency Support Office) and issued throughout the different SOG Supply Offices (S-4). Two variations of the watches were issued to cross border personnel to include a time date and non-time date. The bands were usually replaced by the veterans for the nylon strap found with the survival wrist compass. The Seiko Watch on the left was issued to Michael Sheppard of Recon Team Montana and the watch on the right was issued to Steve Perry who was assigned to MAC V SOG, OPs-80.
Here is another of the issued 6119s, from "lkmilitary.com"
Pretty cool, eh? The watch on the right is clearly a 6119-810x...anyone know what the watch on the left is? There may be a Daini symbol on the dial...looks like maybe a 7005?
I have three of these 6119s. I buy them whenever I see them just because of the cool, spooky, Special Forces connection. Most of the ones I find are a little ratty because they have a plated brass case, and consequently they sell cheap. The one shown above dates to April, 1969, and has a 6119B. I have no military history on it, but I did notice that the watch appears to have never had a bracelet and has the exact same kind of brass spring bars as the known SOG-issue watch in the article. Coincidence? Maybe...
The second watch I have is also a 6119-8100, and I got it a few years ago. It dates to June, 1968, and bears serial number 867626. It also has a 6119B. This watch had severe water damage, and apparently had been completely flooded. I had to destroy part of the movement to get the stem out. Fortunately, I had another 6119B laying around so I swapped it in. The dial has, uhh..."patina" from the water damage.
The third one I got within the last month or two. This one is a 6119-8101 and also dates to June, 1968. It is in better shape, and came with a period-correct Seiko bracelet which looks to be original to the watch. It has serial number 860308, and has a 6119A. So two of this model, made in the same month, with different movements. Not sure this one could have been a SOG watch, as I doubt the military would have sprung for the bracelet! But you never know...
I just think these watches are epically cool. Gonna throw some gaskets in the one with the bracelet and wear it a little. Also gonna put the nicer one with the spring bars on a green military strap and maybe wear it, too. The water damaged one? I am just gonna look at it and wonder about where it might have been and what it might have seen...
Anyone else here have one?
In order to be of use to a counterinsurgency soldier, this watch had to be "sterile" (no military markings). Often, the Special Forces guys using them were not operating in areas where they were officially supposed to be. Consequently, there would be no real way to differentiate them from ordinary watches sold through civilian channels...they didn't WANT them differentiated. Other than watches actually owned by Special Forces soldiers, it's anyone's guess as to whether a particular watch was issued or not, so it is difficult to determine exactly which models were handed out. After doing some light research, I discovered that the model in question, or at least ONE of them, was the 6119-810x. I got this one a couple weeks ago, and before I could do anything with it the watch was lost in the shuffle of a house move. This is a 6119-8100, and dates to April, 1969. Here is a pic of it, along with part of the article in question which shows the issued watch...
Apparently, however, this was not the only model that was issued by CISO during this period. Below is a picture of two watches which were actually issued by MAC-V SOG to named Special Forces operators.
According to "specialforceshistory.com"...
The Recon Watch
The black faced Seiko watches were purchased directly from the manufacturer in bulk by Ben Baker who was the department head of CISO (Counter Insurgency Support Office) and issued throughout the different SOG Supply Offices (S-4). Two variations of the watches were issued to cross border personnel to include a time date and non-time date. The bands were usually replaced by the veterans for the nylon strap found with the survival wrist compass. The Seiko Watch on the left was issued to Michael Sheppard of Recon Team Montana and the watch on the right was issued to Steve Perry who was assigned to MAC V SOG, OPs-80.
Here is another of the issued 6119s, from "lkmilitary.com"
Pretty cool, eh? The watch on the right is clearly a 6119-810x...anyone know what the watch on the left is? There may be a Daini symbol on the dial...looks like maybe a 7005?
I have three of these 6119s. I buy them whenever I see them just because of the cool, spooky, Special Forces connection. Most of the ones I find are a little ratty because they have a plated brass case, and consequently they sell cheap. The one shown above dates to April, 1969, and has a 6119B. I have no military history on it, but I did notice that the watch appears to have never had a bracelet and has the exact same kind of brass spring bars as the known SOG-issue watch in the article. Coincidence? Maybe...
The second watch I have is also a 6119-8100, and I got it a few years ago. It dates to June, 1968, and bears serial number 867626. It also has a 6119B. This watch had severe water damage, and apparently had been completely flooded. I had to destroy part of the movement to get the stem out. Fortunately, I had another 6119B laying around so I swapped it in. The dial has, uhh..."patina" from the water damage.
The third one I got within the last month or two. This one is a 6119-8101 and also dates to June, 1968. It is in better shape, and came with a period-correct Seiko bracelet which looks to be original to the watch. It has serial number 860308, and has a 6119A. So two of this model, made in the same month, with different movements. Not sure this one could have been a SOG watch, as I doubt the military would have sprung for the bracelet! But you never know...
I just think these watches are epically cool. Gonna throw some gaskets in the one with the bracelet and wear it a little. Also gonna put the nicer one with the spring bars on a green military strap and maybe wear it, too. The water damaged one? I am just gonna look at it and wonder about where it might have been and what it might have seen...
Anyone else here have one?
