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Post by yankeeflyguy on Dec 29, 2022 8:00:08 GMT -8
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Post by dapellegrini on Dec 29, 2022 9:28:11 GMT -8
Welcome yankeeflyguy That is a November 1968 Bellmatic. It's in the first case design, the 4006-7000, and has a nice white 7080T dial. The dial and hands look to be in very good shape underneath the crystal. Try this to share your photos:
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Post by yankeeflyguy on Dec 30, 2022 6:02:58 GMT -8
Thanks! I edited my post to show photos.
Any suggestions on who you would trust to service and clean?
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Post by dapellegrini on Dec 31, 2022 9:50:58 GMT -8
yankeeflyguy - well done getting the photos embedded. I am still also sorting how/who may end up servicing mine - I don't have a good answer for that at the moment. Many around here service them themselves - and I am tinkering with one that is probably a lot less meaningful to me than yours! I checked with a couple local watch makers and they turned me down...
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Post by dapellegrini on Dec 31, 2022 16:00:19 GMT -8
A complete aside... from the workshop of Zeiko India... Check out these modified lugs on a 4006-4060: I guess if you don't like integrated bracelets, this is one solution ... Interesting how they have apparently matched the SGP finish on the new lugs as well... Here is what a normal 6040 case looks like:
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 2, 2023 11:14:47 GMT -8
Here is where the data is at. We have 3 case back changes, 3 model number increment events - and an (as of yet) undisclosed switch from 7 to 6 digit serials... Most of these events line up perfectly across all models, but the switch to plain case back (where dial codes also went +1) happened over a couple month period...
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 2, 2023 12:23:22 GMT -8
And following my off-topic theme - gotta love this dial... I guess if you can't find a Bell-matic dial (did you even try?) then you are left with this as an option:
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 2, 2023 13:02:41 GMT -8
Ok - here it is with Black Diamonds indicating when the 7-digit Serials became 6-digits. I think this only ever happened on the 7000 and the 7010... Note that the 7010 first switches to 6 digits in March, then to the Suwa logo case back in April of 1967... making the March 1967 case back for the 7010 quite rare indeed (6 digit serial w/ old style horseshoe) - currently much more rare than the dolphin...
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 2, 2023 15:02:24 GMT -8
And the chart gets more complicated still...
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inboost
WS Benefactor
Constantly Rodicoing
Posts: 4,272
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Post by inboost on Jan 3, 2023 5:26:42 GMT -8
...and wait until he adds the Suwa logo evolutions to the chart! Then we're gong to have a 3D stacked chart of some kind and you'll have to print your own glasses to view it
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 3, 2023 8:00:45 GMT -8
Ya, I think I will hold off on that.
I was surprised to see very different timing on the change over from 7 to 6-digit serials here - I would have guessed that happened at the same time - as it did not require any real changes to the parts or machining... but nope.
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 4, 2023 16:22:41 GMT -8
... ok moving this data over from my other thread to here for posterity ... The first two bell-matics are also the ones that were produced the longest. The 7000 went from Nov 1966 through at least April of 1976 (almost 10 years). The 7010 from at least April 1967 to June 1975 (almost 8 years). Having had such a long shelf life, these two models showed the largest number of changes, from 7 to 6-digit serials and 3 or 4 case back changes. A point of curiosity for anyone matching a 7000T dial to a 700X case (without removing the dial to check the code on the back), or a 7010T dial to a 701X case - the Suwa logo on the earlier versions was the Version 1 below. Later versions were Version 2's... The dividing line seems to be when the Suwa logo was placed on the case back - in April of 1968... Version 1 - The Diamond Suwa
All version 1 variants of the Suwa dial have a diamond shape at center and are only found in the earliest 7000 and 7010 dials. These dial variants are found only in the early horseshoe type case backs which did not include the Suwa logo on the case back. The Suwa logo was added the the case backs in April of 1968, and that appears to align strongly with a change to the Suwa logo on the dial to Version 2. Version 1.a - The Two-Line SuwaThis version of the logo is only found on the earliest examples. Note that the two lines of the logo are not touching, similar to the Suwa logo used on case backs after April 1968. Version 1.b - The Crossed-Line SuwaVery similar to version 1.a, this version sees the two lines joined into an integrated shape. Version 1.c - The Diamond Suwa
Similar to version 1.a and 1.b, this logo is a bit less refined, and has a clear diamond shape in the center. The diamond at center is generally smaller and less sharp. Version 2In April of 1968 the horseshoe case backs were changed to include a Suwa logo on the case back. It appears that at the same time the Suwa logo on the dial was updated to this version, which has a circle shape in the center instead of a diamond shape. Version 2.a - The Sharp-Circle Suwa
This is an uncommon version of the 2.b logo with a clear circle / dot in the center of the dial and a more pointed outer profile. The top and bottom edges look more flat, and the left and right margins more pointed than the 2.b. Logo. Version 2.b - The Soft-Circle SuwaThis is the most common Suwa logo with a clear circle / dot in the center of the dial. The top and bottom edges are softer than version 2.a, as are the left and right margins. This version appears on many dials from 1968 and all dials from 1969 onward.
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inboost
WS Benefactor
Constantly Rodicoing
Posts: 4,272
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Post by inboost on Jan 4, 2023 17:25:20 GMT -8
I think versions 2.a and 2.b look like a hurricane symbol:
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 4, 2023 17:30:52 GMT -8
Ya, I always thought the Suwa logo was meant to be a hurricane and the Daini logo a lightning bolt... in a Japanese calligraphy style
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 4, 2023 17:52:47 GMT -8
Actually, staring at them again, now I think the Daini is a side view of a hurricane and the Suwa a top view... same object, different perspectives - clever and kind of makes sense...
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Post by Solotov on Jan 5, 2023 15:58:28 GMT -8
This is some fantastic thorough information, got quite a few bells in the collection, pretty interesting to see where they fall in these times
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appumaster
WS Benefactor
MAD FOR SEIKOS
Posts: 241
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Post by appumaster on Jan 6, 2023 9:29:58 GMT -8
This is the oldest one I have. Picked it up as non working. It's from April 68, Proof Horseshoe with the Suwa logo caseback and soft suwa v.2 logo
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 6, 2023 10:23:35 GMT -8
appumaster - does the dial code on that end in 7090T? If so, those are not easy to come by. The 7050T (7020) and 7080T's (7028) are more common
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vmaxnl
Timekeeper
'Small' collector of Seiko watches
Posts: 195
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Post by vmaxnl on Jan 6, 2023 12:40:56 GMT -8
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 6, 2023 13:17:07 GMT -8
vmaxnl - very nice. I believe 4006-7000's changed from the 7000T to the 7070T dials around April of 1968, then to the 7080T dials around May of 1969. Those early cases on the 7000's are very hard to come by. Your 6070 is an example of the only dial type that did not state the Jewel count on the dial. Rumor is this version was sold in Japan where the Jewel count being at 17 would have perhaps hurt sales...
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