vmaxnl
Timekeeper
'Small' collector of Seiko watches
Posts: 195
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Post by vmaxnl on Jan 6, 2023 13:41:39 GMT -8
The 4006-6070 was my cheapest Bell...
The other Bell-Matics I had Richard Askham service them. The 1967 was a disaster, but he managed to get it right, the 1968 was in better shape. So for now they should be okay for the next years.
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 6, 2023 15:15:30 GMT -8
Richard has been a lot of help on my documentation project as well! Glad to hear he is the one that looked after yours.
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appumaster
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MAD FOR SEIKOS
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Post by appumaster on Jan 9, 2023 4:36:31 GMT -8
appumaster - does the dial code on that end in 7090T? If so, those are not easy to come by. The 7050T (7020) and 7080T's (7028) are more common The dial code is 7000T
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 9, 2023 7:33:44 GMT -8
Ah, I don't believe the 7000T dial belonged in the 7020 case. That one likely belongs in a 7000 case.
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appumaster
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MAD FOR SEIKOS
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Post by appumaster on Jan 9, 2023 7:47:33 GMT -8
Ah, I don't believe the 7000T dial belonged in the 7020 case. That one likely belongs in a 7000 case. 😬looks like I need either the correct dial or the correct caseback 🤦
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appumaster
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Post by appumaster on Jan 10, 2023 12:50:11 GMT -8
dapellegrini There's one more that's just come up for sale today here. It's in working condition though the dial and ring leave a lot to be desired. It's the caseback without Suwa logo Sept. '67 -7020 caseback but the dial code is 7000T. I think this is another point where Seiko just did a mish mash of parts.
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Post by dapellegrini on Jan 10, 2023 13:23:52 GMT -8
It is possible that the 7000T found its way into the 7020 cases, but my current theory is that is not the case - and these are parts mix-matches done over the years. Here's why:
- The original 7020 had the 7050T dial code for the 27j version. - The 7029 got the 7059T dial code for the 21j version. - Then we see the 7090T dial code go into later 7020's with 17j count - and the 7080T dial go into the 7028's that replaced the 7029's with a 17j count
That gives us specific dials for the 27j, 21j and 17j versions of the 7020, for both JDM and NA markets models.
The 7000T dial appears to be used uniquely in the 7000 cases until around the middle of 1968, where it is replaced by the 7070T dial, then ultimately by the 7080T dial around May of 1969.
Now, there is at least one dial that was shared between two different cases - the 7080T. It that appears in the 17j 7000 cases around the middle of 1969 - and the 7028 cases (which replaced the 7029) also in mid to late 1969.
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 24, 2023 13:54:05 GMT -8
Here's another interesting oddity I just recently discovered. The 4006-701X is the second longest running model, in production for more than 8 years. This model has a curious black dial-only version, dial code ending in 7060T, which is remarkable because it has more elaborate minute markers outside of the hour indices and inside the inner bezel. Also remarkable because it is one of very few dials that was made in a single color. Here's one of mine from May 1975: FWIW these are pretty easy to come by, and they are all 27 jewels. What I have recently learned was that there was a (very) short lived alternate version of this dial, dial code ending in 7064T, with examples so far in just Jan-Mar of 1975, with a different handset and dial, without lume treatment. Here's my example And here it is side-by-side with the 7060T dial: Even more interesting, these examples and dates line up very well with the World Timer 6117-6400, which also saw a lume-less dial and hand set between Dec 1974 and Feb of 1975. I would venture a guess there are more examples of Seiko watches around early 1975 that follow this same pattern, normally lumed dials getting a new dial code ending "4" and without lume on the hands or dial. Here are the World Timer examples: seikoworldtime.com/dataView?dialCode=4t&thumbs=trueThese versions without lume seem to be quite rare, and almost completely overlooked.
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HiBeat
Global Moderator
SEIKO Iko Iko GDTRWS
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Post by HiBeat on Feb 24, 2023 14:23:44 GMT -8
More fascinating observations Dan.
Maybe lume got hard to source in that period of time? Or cost cutting that the suits figured no one would notice ?
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 24, 2023 16:10:07 GMT -8
Ya, it is curious. This is also around the time frame when digitals started to become the next big thing, especially with Seiko.
I was surprised to find it with the bell-matics - and so far it is just this one dial/model, among 8 total bell-matics in production in that window, to make this change. I suspect there will be a 6138 and/or 6139 variant or something similar making the same change in this window.
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inboost
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Constantly Rodicoing
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Post by inboost on Feb 24, 2023 17:37:38 GMT -8
More fascinating observations Dan. Maybe lume got hard to source in that period of time? Or cost cutting that the suits figured no one would notice ? I feel like this is one of those De ja vu things going on - I am unexplainably certain we had a similar discussion about lume possibly being unavailable for another watch family in the Seiko line up. Maybe it was the world timers?
Regardless, great sleuthing dapellegrini and what a beaut of a bell! I need a dark dialed one to balance my blendermatic!
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Post by dapellegrini on Feb 24, 2023 17:49:02 GMT -8
There was a thread where I voiced my skepticism about the lume-less world timers - back when I had only seen two or three - here: wristsushi.proboards.com/thread/23351/6117-6400-lume-legitNow I am sure those are legit - and we have at least one bell-matic in the mix too - in the exact same time frame! EDIT: I'm not sure I ever saw a theory about a lume shortage... link?
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vmaxnl
Timekeeper
'Small' collector of Seiko watches
Posts: 195
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Post by vmaxnl on May 2, 2023 8:46:11 GMT -8
Just got this Bell-Matic 4005-7000 in. The movement is running fine for now, but I will have it serviced later. The case and crystal were tough nuts to crash. Lots of rust and scratches... But it cleaned up nicely! Now it's shiny and beautiful again. The mo
I just love the dial, the matt black color is just right. The outer bezel with no printing except the triangle for the alarm. And being a date only the dial is much more in balance. A new leather strap is on it's way, and I can enjoy this Bell-Matic more!
Before:
And this is now, after cleaning...
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Post by dapellegrini on May 2, 2023 9:13:41 GMT -8
vmaxnl - very nice. I have also had some tough ones where I was sure the case ring was just rusted to the case - but they do eventually come apart and clean up nicely. The date-only 4005 was a one year run of 5 watches, one gold tone, one white, one blue and two black. The black dial versions are quite different. The one you have has a nice matt finish - the other a radial and more reflective finish
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vmaxnl
Timekeeper
'Small' collector of Seiko watches
Posts: 195
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Post by vmaxnl on May 2, 2023 9:18:48 GMT -8
I was glad, the crystal could be saved. There was a nasty scratch in the crystal, first I thought it was a crack, but luckily just a scratch. I had to remove quite a bit of material, to get it out, but these crystals are thick! And then I had to polish it again, was enough work to make it smooth again!
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saldog
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Aspiring to be a savant, but for now just a watch idiot
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Post by saldog on May 2, 2023 11:01:58 GMT -8
vmaxnl, great work on that crystal. I love this watch's case shape, which is a lot like a slim turtle 6105. I really like the radial brushing on the case as well. I would love to have a 4005 for my collection so this one is high on my list.
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Post by dapellegrini on May 18, 2023 16:58:44 GMT -8
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Post by funkster on May 18, 2023 21:38:17 GMT -8
A stunning piece of work 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you ! Are these going to sit in a permanent location somewhere on the forum? Or have you thought about working towards a coffee table book!!! This will be my go to reference for sure.
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appumaster
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Post by appumaster on May 18, 2023 23:57:30 GMT -8
A stunning piece of work 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you ! Are these going to sit in a permanent location somewhere on the forum? Or have you thought about working towards a coffee table book!!! This will be my go to reference for sure. +1 on the coffee table book!
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Post by dapellegrini on May 19, 2023 11:45:50 GMT -8
Thanks guys - I do hope to build out a website dedicated to bell-matics. Just haven't found the time/energy to get that going yet. For now I am happy to have this back page on my World Timer site, and the Google doc.
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